View Poll Results: What is GITMO about?

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  • GITMO is a fine prison.

    26 40.63%
  • GITMO is a fine GULAG.

    10 15.63%
  • The UN is lying.

    23 35.94%
  • GITMO reflects contemporary USA mores.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO upholds the finest standards of USA Justice.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO is a continuing embarrassment.

    27 42.19%
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Thread: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

  1. #191
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Awesome. Perhaps the answer is to kill them on the battlefield.
    Kind of a silly question. What battlefield was that innocent taxi driver on? In a never ending war, in all nations, with no nation at war with us, exactly what are you calling a battlefield?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Kind of a silly question. What battlefield was that innocent taxi driver on? In a never ending war, in all nations, with no nation at war with us, exactly what are you calling a battlefield?
    Not silly at all. The men and women who fight our wars are as imperfect as the rest of us. Emotions run high. And people not only make mistakes, sometimes they are brutal and do illegal things. Sometimes people are killed unintentionally and sometimes, as in the case of Dilawar (I assume that is who you refer to) they are murdered.

    This battlefield was Bagram Air Force Base. Unlawful combatants fire mortar rounds and rockets at them regularly.

  3. #193
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    I'm not convinced war is in and of itself an immoral act. While I admire people like Ghandi and King, I saw no problem stopping Nazi aggression, for example.
    Do you have any problem with stopping Islamofascist aggression?

  4. #194
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    "All of this intelligence is pieced together and compared to determine whether any piece of the puzzle is 0% reliable, 50% reliable, 100% reliable or 98 other possibilities of reliability__Get it?!"....

    is this something you have actual experience with, or something you have been told?
    It is something I have direct experience with. We did the best we could with the time and information available to us. I was a collection manager. I tasked intelligence collection assets to gather information needed to answer critical questions. We never had enough assets nor enough time to get everything 100% right. No one ever does in the real world. We took the data, combined it with our judgments colored by our preconceptions and prejudices, and provided our assessments to decision-makers. We hope we were right more often that we were wrong. We could be deceived by a skillful enemy. The most skillful deceptions were those we "figured out ourselves". Once we convinced ourselves that we had cleverly understood what the enemy was hiding we became unshakable in our beliefs. Even in the face of evidence contrary to our position we were inclined to develop reasons to not believe the source. Such is human nature. In our training we are given tools to counter this human trait.

  5. #195
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I think Gitmo is an embarressment and disgracing for the West. We were and are so afraid that we sacrificed basic human right standards. We ought to be better than that.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't care about genuine terrorists being subjected to tough treatment. But in Guantanamo and similar places, the executive has unchecked power over punishment of suspects, which opens the door for abuse. And many innocent people get crushed in the wheels of that system -- they are not even allowed to legally defend themselves. How many of the extralegal prisoners were just in the wrong place at the wrong time? How many are there because of false accusations by their enemies? We will never know, because the government doesn't allow us to know.

    On top of that, it plays arguments in the hands of our enemies who hate freedom: "Why do you complain about human right abuses? You do it yourself!"

    No, our laws were fine even before 9/11 and it would have been better to enforce them, instead of creating a load of problematic new laws out of panick. No law will ever guarantee 100% security and safety. That's the price of freedom. And we can't fight the enemies of freedom, when we forget who we are and violate human rights in the process, just because we're scared.

    So I'd say the sooner Gitmo is closed, the better.
    Will you take them?

    No. I thought not.

  6. #196
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Do you have any problem with stopping Islamofascist aggression?
    WOWWW! Such ad obvious strawman. I'm impressed at that boldness with which you throw that out.

    I'm sorry, but torturing and killing innocent taxi drivers does not fight Islamofascist, or anything else for that matter. All it does is destroy our world standing, lower us closer to their level, and weaken all moral authority that we have.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #197
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Not silly at all. The men and women who fight our wars are as imperfect as the rest of us. Emotions run high. And people not only make mistakes, sometimes they are brutal and do illegal things. Sometimes people are killed unintentionally and sometimes, as in the case of Dilawar (I assume that is who you refer to) they are murdered.

    This battlefield was Bagram Air Force Base. Unlawful combatants fire mortar rounds and rockets at them regularly.
    As we are not at war with a country, how would define an unlawful combatant? If China invaded America, our army no more, would you be an unlawful combatant?

    However, a taxi driver fits no definition of an unlawful combatant, not even a combatant at all.

    Laws protect the innocent. It is one reason why they are important.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #198
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Will you take them?

    No. I thought not.
    I would love to see my government taking these prisoners, instead of becoming accomplice of this ongoing human right violation.

    Merkel is a coward when it comes to that, a bag full of hot air: On one side, she (rightfully) complains, on the other side, she isn't willing to contribute solving the problem.
    Last edited by German guy; 02-17-12 at 01:25 PM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I would love to see my government taking these prisoners, instead of becoming accomplice of this ongoing human right violation.

    Merkel is a coward when it comes to that, a bag full of hot air: On one side, she (rightfully) complains, on the other side, she isn't willing to contribute solving the problem.
    Awesome. Let us know how it turns out. Oh. Germany doesn't want them. They are way too dangerous. How do you pronounce kumbaya in German?

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    WOWWW! Such ad obvious strawman. I'm impressed at that boldness with which you throw that out.

    I'm sorry, but torturing and killing innocent taxi drivers does not fight Islamofascist, or anything else for that matter. All it does is destroy our world standing, lower us closer to their level, and weaken all moral authority that we have.
    You said you were happy to stop national socialism in WWII. Since fascism was a big part of that war I wanted to see if you were as consistent with fighting and defeating of fascist movements. Islam and its fascists are as dangerous and national socialists and Italian fascists.

    Murdering Delawar, despite the allegations of people trying to cover their crime, was not and is not US policy. I know that you believe that it is.

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