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United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

What is GITMO about?


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  • Poll closed .
Can't be the Shining City on the Hill by sacrificing the ideals and resolve that got us there. No sir.

You know, some really don't understand this. For too many, ideals are just a hobby, something we have only when it's convenient to have them.
 
Let's assume you are completely right and two men were murdered. Tens of thousands were detained and released. A few hundreds who were deceptive or lied were detained. In years of war you have two murders and a few hundred detained. That sounds like a pretty good record to me. Has there ever been a war with so few murdered?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't excuse breaking our laws and ideals to do such evil and horrible things. You have set a low bar, to be sure. And a bar you really wouldn't accept in anyone dealing with our people.

But we're also not talking about a traditional war. We're talking about people pulled off the street. The cab driver was working and not firing at or fighting us. We just pulled him off the street. The fellow from Canada wasn't even over there at all.

Like I said, you set a low bar, and are too willing to excuse illegal and immoral behavior for not other reason than it is done by your team.


BTW, I'm exactly correct on those killed and tortured. Sadly.

:coffeepap
 
If the UN is evil and corrupt, it is important to remember, we are largely the UN.

:coffeepap
"We are largely" the UN's cash cow__nothing more - nothing less.

They should be booted out of the US and declared a threat to America and an enemy of freedom.

So the ends justify the means?

The adherence to freedom and liberty is not worth sacrifice of those ideals.
Oh really?__Congress and the Executive Office have been enacting totalitarian laws that nullify constitutional "freedom and liberty" which they claim is to protect us from terrorism__Do you also object to this "sacrifice of ideals"?

Does 20 years in the Army count? These were National Guard Interrogators or possibly Iraqis who murdered Delamar. We do not murder prisoners. Ever. The warrior ethic shuns such excesses. I do understand someone who kills beyond necessity during combat operations. Sitting in a secure prison in Baghdad is not quite the same thing.

Beating a prisoner to death is never acceptable.
If the interrogators story conflicts with the charges, I will give them the benefit of the doubt rather than an agenda driven left-wing media and cowardly self-serving politicians who would sacrifice their own mother to improve their public image in the eyes of the world and their electorate.
 
"We are largely" the UN's cash cow__nothing more - nothing less.

They should be booted out of the US and declared a threat to America and an enemy of freedom.

That's quite incorrect. We have huge sway with the UN. being a "cash cow" as you say gives us quite a bit of pull at the table. If nearly any other nation would have done what we did with Iraq, they would have faced much from the UN. See Iraq as an example of that. Remember, Iraq said Kuwait was a threat. Our claim was no more true than their.
 
I'm sorry, but that doesn't excuse breaking our laws and ideals to do such evil and horrible things. You have set a low bar, to be sure. And a bar you really wouldn't accept in anyone dealing with our people.
No one said it did. When soldiers break laws they are prosecuted. I believe you are simply anti-American and certainly anti-US military. That much is clear.

But we're also not talking about a traditional war. We're talking about people pulled off the street. The cab driver was working and not firing at or fighting us. We just pulled him off the street. The fellow from Canada wasn't even over there at all.

Yeah? So, what, exactly?

Like I said, you set a low bar, and are too willing to excuse illegal and immoral behavior for not other reason than it is done by your team.
See? Anti-American. You fail to note the context.

BTW, I'm exactly correct on those killed and tortured. Sadly.

:coffeepap
In what way?
 
No one said it did. When soldiers break laws they are prosecuted. I believe you are simply anti-American and certainly anti-US military. That much is clear.

Here we go, when reason fails the argument, the weak minded resort to you hate America. Bravo!!!! :clap:


Yeah? So, what, exactly?

So, it wasn't war, exactly. It's one thing to imprison soldiers, as in POWs. It's another thing to just pick people up all over the world and claim it is a war. You're giving government too much power, and forgetting any semblence of rule of law. This is more anti-American than anything those who protest it have done.


See? Anti-American. You fail to note the context.

See my first reply to this. You repeat the same weakness.

There is no context that exists which makes this acceptable. I'm sorry, but you merely wish it were so. You're too willing to excuse illegal and immoral behavior. Torture is illegal and immoral.


In what way?

This is really quite straightforward and simple. Those I say were tortured and or killed were. The evidence is clear and undisputed.
 
Here we go, when reason fails the argument, the weak minded resort to you hate America. Bravo!!!! :clap:
You cannot escape your anti-Americanism. I see you no longer bother to try.

So, it wasn't war, exactly. It's one thing to imprison soldiers, as in POWs. It's another thing to just pick people up all over the world and claim it is a war. You're giving government too much power, and forgetting any semblence of rule of law. This is more anti-American than anything those who protest it have done.
Whether you like it or not it is war.

See my first reply to this. You repeat the same weakness.
See my first response. It still applies.

There is no context that exists which makes this acceptable. I'm sorry, but you merely wish it were so. You're too willing to excuse illegal and immoral behavior. Torture is illegal and immoral.
No one has excused illegal behavior. The difference between us is that I recognized that murder is not US policy. If it were US policy no one would be disciplined or prosecuted.

This is really quite straightforward and simple. Those I say were tortured and or killed were. The evidence is clear and undisputed.
Two people. Was that it? Two people? High schools have more violence.
 
"No one has excused illegal behavior. The difference between us is that I recognized that murder is not US policy. If it were US policy no one would be disciplined or prosecuted."

You're right. Bush and Cheney are still walkin' the streets. It's a damn tragedy. However, neither of the executive duo stood up for their compadres in crime, England and Graner. They let the flunkies take the fall for torture and mayhem when it was a policy approved from the White House. A real leader would stand behind his men and women. Garbage at the top causes garbage at the bottom.
 
Whether you like it or not it is war.

Define the war? Are we at war with Afghanistan? Or is it like the war on proverty and drugs? WOn can be won easily, and has a fininte term, and can be treated liek a war. The other is more rhetoric than reality. Wars on things like the second choice will have casulites, but will be never ending and likely hurt us more than help.

See my first response. It still applies.

A weakenss on your part. Very weak.


No one has excused illegal behavior. The difference between us is that I recognized that murder is not US policy. If it were US policy no one would be disciplined or prosecuted.

But there was in two ways:

1) those who created the atmosphere that allowed the deaths walked away untouched. It was excused and the lower soldiers were scapegoated. See Monsters and heros on TED talks.

2) Other illegalites, like waterboarding, were excused, torturing language and definition to the extreme. the faith are willing to swallow the excuses, sadly. But history and definintion are clear on this. We broke the law.


Two people. Was that it? Two people? High schools have more violence.

That makes it all ok than. Hell, we could torture and kill you tommorrow, and there would be no need to charge anyone or change any policy because we would not have reached the magic number that makes it wrong yet.

But we can only speak to what we know. We know two were killed and believed innocent by us, the US, the military, and those who tortured them.

We know that an innocent Canadian was taken off the streets, not in Afghanistan or Iraq, but here. And he was sent away to be tortured.

We know we've waterboarded people.

Now waht's the odds we don't know everything thatw as done.
 
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