View Poll Results: What is GITMO about?

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  • GITMO is a fine prison.

    26 40.63%
  • GITMO is a fine GULAG.

    10 15.63%
  • The UN is lying.

    23 35.94%
  • GITMO reflects contemporary USA mores.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO upholds the finest standards of USA Justice.

    21 32.81%
  • GITMO is a continuing embarrassment.

    27 42.19%
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Thread: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

  1. #101
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not sure we know why any of them were taken, let alone all of them. There was that cab driver who we killed in Afghanistan. He was fighting. He was driving a cab. A bad guy, the actual enemy, told us he was bad. We tortured him and he died. Not sure what category we put him under, but he wasn't a solider firing weapons at us. He was a cab driver.



    Of which we are not engaged. We are at war with no country. True, we invaded countries, countries that did not attack us or declare war on us, but we are not fighting countries. The point I make is that we have signed and agree to human rights across the board, always, regardless. We did sign and agree to thiese things, so there is no out of thin air.




    Well, while I think I do understand the law, and what we've agree to, the point you respond to is about our risk. Our enemy has no chance of beating us, period. So, as we don't face that extreme threat, there is no rational reason to argue that we forsake all our core values.



    What's winning? The country was defeated fairly quickly. Occupation is harder. But, define winning.



    No one said a thing about coddling. That's merely hyperbolic nonsense when you don't want to address rule of law. Let me ask you, if we behave like our enemy, are we any different?
    This is just going around in a circle. All of this is answered in my posts above, even multiple times.

    You're attempting to apply the wrong "law." You're using "torture" in a hyperbolic way, which is ironic when you call my measured and accurate responses "hyperbolic." And you still seem to think it's all a "law enforcement" operation.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  2. #102
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    This is just going around in a circle. All of this is answered in my posts above, even multiple times.

    You're attempting to apply the wrong "law." You're using "torture" in a hyperbolic way, which is ironic when you call my measured and accurate responses "hyperbolic." And you still seem to think it's all a "law enforcement" operation.
    Please, I know how much we all think we're smart and give great responses, but the fact is no one used the word or the idea of coddling. merely rule of law. Saying you can do anything is not following any rule of law. And when you have signed human rights agreements on how you will treat all humans, you can't say there is any reasonable of legal way you abuse anyone.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #103
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Please, I know how much we all think we're smart and give great responses, but the fact is no one used the word or the idea of coddling. merely rule of law. Saying you can do anything is not following any rule of law. And when you have signed human rights agreements on how you will treat all humans, you can't say there is any reasonable of legal way you abuse anyone.
    Given that this characterizes nothing I said, and indeed is directly contradictory to some of it, I can only conclude that you either didn't read any of my responses, you simply didn't understand them, or you don't care to be honest. But, I've come to be used to that.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 02-03-12 at 04:02 PM.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #104
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Given that this characterizes nothing I said, and indeed is directly contradictory to some of it, I can only conclude that you either didn't read any of my responses, you simply didn't understand them, or you don't care to be honest. But, I've come to be used to that.
    By all means feel free to explain what you think I missed. I frankly feel you've missed much of what I've said, and have tried to explain myself. If you believe in any way that we can treat any group as if no law applies, then I have not misrepresented you. If you believe the constitution doesn't instruct how we behave to all, but only to who gets rights, then I haven't misunderstood you. If you think we've only in prisoned soliders, than I haven't misunderstood you. And if you believe anyone has spoken of coddling, as you suggest, you're frankly wrong.

    But, feel free to explain. There is nothing wrong in doing so.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #105
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    What's the problem with "water boarding"?

    It was reported to have saved american lives.
    The mighty "Wurlitzer" that cranked out the Saddam has WMDs, Saddam is huge threat, Saddam has yellowcake from Niger, and other choreographed lies is the same mighty "Wurlitzer" that reported waterboarding to have saved American lives. If you need to know about the "mighty Wurlitzer" read the thread "The CIA and the Media" in the Polls forum. I guarantee it to be illucidating.

  6. #106
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    By all means feel free to explain what you think I missed. I frankly feel you've missed much of what I've said, and have tried to explain myself. If you believe in any way that we can treat any group as if no law applies, then I have not misrepresented you. If you believe the constitution doesn't instruct how we behave to all, but only to who gets rights, then I haven't misunderstood you. If you think we've only in prisoned soliders, than I haven't misunderstood you. And if you believe anyone has spoken of coddling, as you suggest, you're frankly wrong.
    Read my posts throughout the thread, ducky. Everything you say in this post indicates exactly what I said before -- you either haven't, you didn't understand them, or you don't care to be honest, because this doesn't describe anything I've said.

    Frankly, I don't care which of those it is; this behavior is a persistent characteristic of yours.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #107
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    The thing is, there indeed ARE folks being held there who aren't combatants at all, and simply picked up on the battlefield for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    That some are held indefinitely without trial or due process is, indeed, an injustice.

    But Guantanamo is merely a prison or a place where these guys are held. It's not the fact that these facilities exist that's the problem, it's how these guys are treated - not really afforded criminal rights, but not really afforded POW rights either.
    while that was true in ,say, 2006, it is no longer true.... of the 775 dudes originally detained there.. only 171 remain... none of the "picked up on a whim" dudes are still detained there.
    of the 171 left over, 88 have been cleared for release (in most of those cases, their home countries won't take them... in the case of the Yemenis, Yemens security issues at home preclude release).. the rest are going through military tribunals ( military trials)

  8. #108
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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not really possible. A prisoner of war goes home after the war. A never ending war suggests something very different.

    If this is not against any law, it should be. This goes against nearly every value this country has ever professed.
    Once the war is over the prisoners can go home. No hard feelings.
    Until the war is over there is no reason to release the islamofascists back into the wild where they can harm us again.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not only that, but a prisoner of war camp has, well, prisoners of war. Gitmo has "enemy combatants" instead. So, what's the difference? Why, the one is covered by the Geneva accords. The other is a made up phrase that means, "you ain't got no rights, so there!"
    More likely unlawful enemy combatants.

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    Re: United Nations: U.S. Operation Of Gitmo Is ‘Clear Breach Of International Law’

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    No matter how you view it...Gitmo is an illegal (to some) prison, born out of war fear. It has however, been created with the blessing of us all, in the mind of the world. If you do not agree with the premise, that there are times when we must compromise societal health to protect the Ideal which created it....then Gitmo is a bad thing.

    If you are in enough fear (rational or not) that bad people are coming to get us (which they likely are)...then this compromise could become logical.
    The very great difficulty with biases is that we are blind to them.

    Would you prefer we kill them? Or would you prefer that we release them in your neighborhood?

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