View Poll Results: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney?

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    27 60.00%
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Thread: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

  1. #181
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    I assume you are talking about income taxes = 15.3% of your income or are you including FICA? In either case depending on how old you are, and who you work for there is still ways to save. If you are young time is on your side. If you work for a firm with a matching dollar 401K or like plan and are not contributing then you are giving up the 100% return any matched dollar earns right out of the gate.
    I was referring to the employer and employee side of FICA only. I include both because the commodity you are offering the employer (skill/time/labor) comes at a higher cost to them, so they offer a lower actual wage (not a perfect rule, but it allows me to use hard numbers, which I like). I was also not using the current, temporary reduction in FICA.

    I agree that supplementation is very important. I just like to point out that the cost of this program is bigger than many realize and I hate that the general fund takes a loan against it when we are talking about people's retirement.
    Last edited by Keridan; 01-28-12 at 11:05 AM.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

  2. #182
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    You're a millionaire?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #183
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    I did post a link for that 97% comment a ways back and would be happy to do so again.
    Oh I know ... no need to post the link. My point was that Romney pays taxes in the bracket of a lower income American.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Regarding FIT, SIT, and FICA, I did start a thread to discuss the differences, but everyone seems to want to discuss them here. Put without flourish, state is a separate government and FICA is intended to be flat because of the style of ROI.
    Yes I know ... the OP was to juxtapose posters federal tax rate compared to Romney and many side discussions occurred. I was only speaking to federal tax rate and FICA and not my state taxes. The glaring point is an american work full time plus earning between 75.000-200,000 a year is paying a far greater percentage of taxes than Romney.

    I was speaking of federal taxes and I did include FICA. I mentioned my state and property taxes yet only after the fact and not in comparison to Romney.

    I realize you are analytical and logical and the "jealousy" and "envy" and "class war fare" argument is not your premise.

    I mention that only because Romney uses that phrase on the trail and I think it is a strawman.

  4. #184
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    I think Fox News and Romney had better come up with something more substantial then people are jealous of the wealthy. It will hold up to their own fringe members or pundits with no one to ask them of critical thought yet in the election they will need some substance.

    In his victory speech the night of New Hampshire's primary, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said Obama was a "leader who divides us with the bitter politics of envy,"
    Obama: ‘Nobody envies rich people’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

    In his speech Friday, Obama reiterated a core theme from this week's State of the Union address by calling for the end of tax cuts and loopholes benefiting the country's top earners. Obama assured lawmakers the plan would prove popular with voters. Obama continued, "We're going to push hard to make sure someone making over a million dollars a year aren't getting tax breaks and tax subsidies they don't need, not out of envy, but out of a sense of fairness and a sense of mutual responsibility and a sense of commitment for the country's future, and that's what we're fighting for. The American people understand that."
    Last edited by Turin; 01-28-12 at 02:00 PM.

  5. #185
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Which tax cut was so beneficial to the rich only?
    The tax cuts on inheritance, capital gains, and outsourcing jobs.

    And why, when taxes were cut, are we not looking at the lack of reduction in spending?
    World hegemony is not cheap?



    Well, you make the obvious mistake that I'm GOP, which is just wrong. I just happen to be able to tell the difference in the taxes.
    I never said you were GOP.

    I really don't want to treat FICA as FIT here.
    No one has ever suggested they are. FICA is however part of the effective federal taxes the working class has to pay.

    That is my whole point. I don't want to take what was set aside for retirement, claim it was there for the general fund, and use it as a 15.3% (8.4% under current revenue cut) increase in taxes on everyone for the general fund. I want to stop pretending that it's okay for the government to claim they are taking as a retirement and just using it for more debt spending.
    Me too, but until those funds are locked away from general fund use, we are where we are.

    All this stuff about the use of it does not change why the tax is there and why it is supposed to be flat. When you muddle that up, you just tell the government that it's okay that they are spending everyone's retirement, the wealthy will give them money when they retire.
    When the funds are locked from general fund use we should have that discussion.

    Or they could stop debt spending that is so extreme that they have spent everyone's retirement and now the wealthy are being asked to pay higher tax rates and cover everyone's retirement.
    Yes, we have overspent, mostly on excessive military spending and optional wars. It began under the Reagan Administration. The other half of the problem is the 30 years of tax cuts to the rich. The only way to fix 30 years of spending too much and taxing the rich too little is to do the reverse.


    The working class has many reasons. They could prefer not to have a nanny state. They might want people to have some freedoms in how they spend their money.
    I don't think the working class spends a lot of time worrying how the rich spend the money that they themselves no longer have.

    They might understand that the government stole their money on the premise of covering their retirement and then spent it poorly instead.
    And that helps Mitt Romney how? He proposes increasing military spending.


    They might not want their employer to lose incentive to do business in the US.
    50% of the country has an average income of $15,800. I think you might be overestimating the glee of the working class with their declining status.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #186
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Oh I know ... no need to post the link. My point was that Romney pays taxes in the bracket of a lower income American.




    Yes I know ... the OP was to juxtapose posters federal tax rate compared to Romney and many side discussions occurred. I was only speaking to federal tax rate and FICA and not my state taxes. The glaring point is an american work full time plus earning between 75.000-200,000 a year is paying a far greater percentage of taxes than Romney.

    I was speaking of federal taxes and I did include FICA. I mentioned my state and property taxes yet only after the fact and not in comparison to Romney.

    I realize you are analytical and logical and the "jealousy" and "envy" and "class war fare" argument is not your premise.

    I mention that only because Romney uses that phrase on the trail and I think it is a strawman.
    Thank you for breaking this down and giving a well-reasoned argument.

    I see that you understand the differences I am pointing out between the taxes and that you are referring to the burden as a whole. The reason I have gone into it is that I want to look at where that money goes and how much comes back and such. We have differing POVs here and I don't know that we will come to an agreement, but I appreciate that you at least understand what I am saying.

    I think we will have to agree to disagree. I'd be fine with delving into the fundamental differences between the taxes some more or discussing solutions, but I can accept just understanding each other and disagreeing.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

  7. #187
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The tax cuts on inheritance, capital gains, and outsourcing jobs.
    The death tax is for another thread, but instead of looking at cutting it as a break for the rich, I prefer to think of it as a lessening of a penalty for taking care of the next generation of your family.
    It's time to look at capital gains again, I have said that many times, but those cuts did increase revenue at the time.
    Help me with your reference to outsourcing incentives, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    World hegemony is not cheap?
    So, my argument is that they did a poor job of handling our money and your counterpoint is that they should be leading the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I never said you were GOP.
    You stated that the GOP has a policy and then furthered your statement with "You want to treat FICA the same as FIT." If you didn't mean that, that's fine, but that's where it came from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No one has ever suggested they are. FICA is however part of the effective federal taxes the working class has to pay.

    Me too, but until those funds are locked away from general fund use, we are where we are.

    When the funds are locked from general fund use we should have that discussion.
    My position is that those funds should be locked away and you are saying that we might as well throw it into FIT because the government overspent and use it as another way to tax people more for the general fund.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, we have overspent, mostly on excessive military spending and optional wars. It began under the Reagan Administration. The other half of the problem is the 30 years of tax cuts to the rich. The only way to fix 30 years of spending too much and taxing the rich too little is to do the reverse.

    I don't think the working class spends a lot of time worrying how the rich spend the money that they themselves no longer have.

    And that helps Mitt Romney how? He proposes increasing military spending.

    50% of the country has an average income of $15,800. I think you might be overestimating the glee of the working class with their declining status.
    This was my bad. I shouldn't have gone with the derailment to the election. I was more concerned about who actually pays a higher FIT than Romney and why FICA is not FIT and is another failure of the government.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

  8. #188
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    the death tax is nothing more than a surcharge on the group that pays the most income taxes and the only reason it remains is because it only hits a couple percent of the population. It is an abomination that should be ended

  9. #189
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I'm pretty sure I do as well. However, I am absolutely sure that I really don't care whether he does or not. I don't sit around whining that somebody has more money than I do, or is capable of working the system better than I am. I've got more important things to concern myself with on a daily basis, and other issues I consider much more important regarding political candidates.
    I don't lose sleep at night over the fact that Romney has a lot more money than I do. However, I don't think he should be allowed to pay a lower tax rate than people who make far less money than he does.

  10. #190
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    Re: Do you have a higher effective tax rate than mitt romney

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the death tax is nothing more than a surcharge on the group that pays the most income taxes and the only reason it remains is because it only hits a couple percent of the population. It is an abomination that should be ended
    I agree with you Turtle that the current estate tax law should be abolished and all transfer of income from one person to a different person should simply be handled as an income transfer with the appropriate tax paid upon it.

    I suspect that if you had to decide between that and the current estate tax, you would suddenly become the worlds biggest advocate for keeping the current estate tax.
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