View Poll Results: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagree

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  • Agree. Respect people's copyrights. Pay for what you use.

    13 44.83%
  • Disagree. In the digital age, people should get to copy what they want.

    16 55.17%
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Thread: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagree

  1. #71
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Can't see how rent seeking makes the economy better, in fact the opposite tends to be true.
    I don't entirely agree that IP law necessarily = rent-seeking, although when put into practice, many features of modern American IP law do indeed promote rent-seeking.

    Like I've been saying throughout the thread, intellectual property isn't a black-and-white issue for me.

  2. #72
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    In many cases this is true, but not necessarily so. Either way, the distinction between an original and unoriginal work is often subjective and artificial, which is why I agree with some Libertarian arguments against IP law as it exists today.

    But I still think people who put that much hard work and effort into the creation of a work are entitled to some sort of protection.
    Some here like to distort my opinion on the subject, but I too think that someone is entitled to compensation for their work, whether it IP or other.
    The problem I have is that the law gives more privileged benefits to IP producers, than is necessary.

    With physical property, if you abandon it, after a certain amount of time, you lose the rights to it.
    There is an implicit duty to maintain physical property, but none for IP.

    That should be rectified, among other things.
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  3. #73
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't entirely agree that IP law necessarily = rent-seeking, although when put into practice, many features of modern American IP law do indeed promote rent-seeking.

    Like I've been saying throughout the thread, intellectual property isn't a black-and-white issue for me.
    It isn't for me too.
    But my answer was purely based on the OPs question.
    If all people were to observe current IP law, yes it promotes rent seeking.

    Which is economically negative.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't entirely agree that IP law necessarily = rent-seeking, although when put into practice, many features of modern American IP law do indeed promote rent-seeking.

    Like I've been saying throughout the thread, intellectual property isn't a black-and-white issue for me.
    No offense, but you have not fully articulated yourself on the gray areas. Granted it may not be a black and white area, but it would be best if you discussed why it is not a black and white issue, instead of simply saying so. I don't mean this as an attack, but interested your opinions - either formulated or in the process of formulation.
    Last edited by Antiderivative; 01-21-12 at 11:37 PM.

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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Some here like to distort my opinion on the subject, but I too think that someone is entitled to compensation for their work, whether it IP or other.
    The problem I have is that the law gives more privileged benefits to IP producers, than is necessary.

    With physical property, if you abandon it, after a certain amount of time, you lose the rights to it.
    There is an implicit duty to maintain physical property, but none for IP.

    That should be rectified, among other things.
    In addition, IP is not subject to the ordinary economic of laws of scarcity. The transmission of ideas does not diminish other people's physical property (i.e. land, labor, capital).

    The scarcity problem simply does not exist for intellectual property and therefore is not necessarily subject to the laws of private property.

  6. #76
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    I'm not touching this poll.

    From a strictly economic perspective, I simply don't see how obeying copyright laws would improve the economy. I will admit it: I infringe copyrights. A lot. But the thing is, I also spend the majority of my disposable income-- when I have any-- on intellectual property. I see movies in the theaters. I buy books, and unlike a number of other supposed IP supporters, I buy my books new so that my purchases actually support the publishers. I've gone back and purchased legal copies of materials I've already downloaded.

    The thing is, piracy is not theft. It does not work even remotely like theft. When a person steals a physical item, the person they stole it from is out the price they paid for it; they are directly harmed in a fashion that they can directly account for. When a person illegally downloads a copyrighted intellectual property, the person who owns that IP is out nothing; they have lost money if and only if the person who downloaded it would have purchased it otherwise, and they still have that IP available for sale. Piracy isn't theft, it is the distribution of counterfeit goods. However much those counterfeit goods hurt the bottom lines of the companies that produce legitimate products, those counterfeit goods are still real economic goods that are still beneficial to society. And when those counterfeit goods drive sales of genuine goods, as has been alleged with supporting evidence, then they are actually enhancing the value of those intellectual properties.

    Obviously, the people who create culture and information need to get paid. I'm the last person who's going to argue otherwise because this is my livelihood we're talking about. But increasingly draconian penalties and control measures are not the solution; these things hurt our customers and they hurt us in the long run. The only way we're going to survive this is by finding ways to make our money despite the piracy, and the companies that are going to be the most successful are going to be the ones that learn to make their money because of the piracy-- the companies that find a way to make free online distribution work for them rather than against them.

  7. #77
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    In addition, IP is not subject to the ordinary economic of laws of scarcity. The transmission of ideas does not diminish other people's physical property (i.e. land, labor, capital).

    The scarcity problem simply does not exist for intellectual property and therefore is not necessarily subject to the laws of private property.
    True enough, but open to the law allowing exclusivity for a limited period of time.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    In addition, many copyright laws do not necessarily benefit the "originator", but the distributor. For example, I recently bought The Cars CD at Wal-Mart since I was delving into late 70's, early 80's new wave and saw a copy for $5.00 while shopping for a pillow.

    While I do not have proof of my assertion, I assume that most of the profits went to Wal-Mart rather than to the musicians.

    There is a lot of middle men in copyright laws.

  9. #79
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    As somebody who makes a very comfortable living from their intellectual property, I wholeheartedly disagree.
    Of course you do, your entire reasoning is self serving by it's very nature.
    If IP laws are loosened, you may have to do more work to earn the same income.

    Knowing all that, your arguments aren't any more valid than a non IP producer.
    You blame them for wanting something for nothing, while at the same time you want something for nothing.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 01-21-12 at 11:50 PM.
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  10. #80
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    Re: The economy would be better if more people respected copyright law. Agree/disagr

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    No offense, but you have not fully articulated yourself on the gray areas. Granted it may not be a black and white area, but it would be best if you discussed why it is not a black and white issue, instead of simply saying so. I don't mean this as an attack, but interested your opinions - either formulated or in the process of formulation.
    I haven't fully articulated my opinions because they are not fully formed. I'm just saying I can see both sides - most of my opinions on the issue I have already stated in this thread.

    FWIW teamosil's post a few pages back articulated pretty well what I think the problem is.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-21-12 at 11:55 PM.

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