View Poll Results: How long should a copyright last before the I.P. becomes public domain?

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  • There should be no such thing as a copyright.

    6 5.71%
  • 1-20 years after intellectual property is created

    19 18.10%
  • 21-40 years after intellectual property is created

    2 1.90%
  • 41-60 years after intellectual property is created

    1 0.95%
  • The copyright should last as long as the creator of the intellectual property is still alive

    24 22.86%
  • 1-20 after the original creator of the intellectual property has died

    14 13.33%
  • 21-40 after the original creator of the intellectual property has died

    3 2.86%
  • 41-60 after the original creator of the intellectual property has died

    3 2.86%
  • The copyright on the intellectual property should last forever (a perpetual copyright.)

    20 19.05%
  • other idea or I do not know(please specify)

    13 12.38%
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Thread: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

  1. #41
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I poked a giant hole in your supposed argument about IP and you revert to your usual nonsensical defense of IP theft. Here I'll make it easier for you sweetie since you're adamant about debating copyright. "Orphaned" works, whatever the hell that means, don't fall under the same guidelines of the modern IP debate. Some vase made 1600 years ago, or some folklore story told by the Roma from Bulgaria doesn't fall under what it the copyright argument consists of. What the IP debate is about, is your ridiculous defense of stealing that which you haven't put a single hour of effort into and enjoying it because you don't feel like paying for. Your defense of that act and the arguments you use to defend it is about as valid as taking the thief's argument for why he stole a wallet as a serious point of discussion.
    No you didn't.
    You made a comment unrelated to the specific topic of discussion.

    We're talking about orphaned works and how finding the author, doesn't mean we've found the owner.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #42
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    LaMidRighter's Avatar
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It should be an affirmative defense in court, that nullifies the legal damages, which are substantial.
    I think it's $150k per infringing incident.
    Not sure about the damages, I had to learn the legal premises when I was in my major. I think 150k is the patent max. and I know 250k is the copywrite max. per incident. The extent of my knowledge is that they usually work out a loss of income settlement and they get pricey.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #43
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Not sure about the damages, I had to learn the legal premises when I was in my major. I think 150k is the patent max. and I know 250k is the copywrite max. per incident. The extent of my knowledge is that they usually work out a loss of income settlement and they get pricey.
    It's generally some ridiculous sum.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #44
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Wrong.
    If the owner can not be identified but can still sue, with registration, after the fact, that still means we have a problem.
    Which doesn't mean that registration is no longer required, which was the point I was speaking to.

    "We" don't really have a problem, though. A few people think they do, but that doesn't make it an actual problem worthy of diminishing copyright for.

    This argument is similar to those who insist that if it's hard to find the owner of land to ask permission to be on that land, then it isn't really trespassing -- or shouldn't be.


    And if he or she is dead and has no easily identifiable heirs?
    Then let it go, man; that particular one's not for you. Find something else to work from.

    You have this hypothetical down to such an infinitesimal likelihood that it's absolutely not worth upsetting IP over.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #45
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The problem here is that:

    Little IP creators who won't likely see anything substantive from their works, live on the hope that they will and want the extended protection based on that hope.
    So the **** what?

    The big guys, who make most of the money, want to extend ownership as long as possible, regardless of the valued added behavior in relation to the works.
    And what? That is their right.

    Some artists suffer from the "special little snowflake" problem. They think their profession is more deserving of legal protection because, "art" is "special."
    I don't even know what the hell it is you're talking about mostly because it's the same old nonsense from people who simply want to be allowed to download Cowboys and Aliens without paying for it. Here I'll make it simple for you. If you don't want to pay for the work of other people, that's fine. However stop being so ridiculously dishonest with everyone here and simply admit it. Don't act as if there is some sort of serious ethical argument and some little 15 year old who made a worthless app is going to be the most affected. The overwhelming majority of downloads are of modern music, modern movies and mainstream entertainment. People aren't exactly lining up to torrent the entire works of Jose Marti or Plato. They're downloading Twilight, Justin Beiber and whomever else is famous today.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #46
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Which doesn't mean that registration is no longer required, which was the point I was speaking to.

    "We" don't really have a problem, though. A few people think they do, but that doesn't make it an actual problem worthy of diminishing copyright for.

    This argument is similar to those who insist that if it's hard to find the owner of land to ask permission to be on that land, then it isn't really trespassing -- or shouldn't be.
    There are legal provisions that allow adverse possession of land.

    Adverse possession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Then let it go, man; that particular one's not for you. Find something else to work from.

    You have this hypothetical down to such an infinitesimal likelihood that it's absolutely not worth upsetting IP over.
    If it were so small, then why are there libraries of such works?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #47
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There are legal provisions that allow adverse possession of land.

    Adverse possession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    You really should stop using legal terms you don't really have a grasp of and using Wikipedia as backup.

    Adverse possession takes a LONG time and requires quite a few specific things. It's nothing whatever like mere trespass.



    If it were so small, then why are there libraries of such works?
    Of works where the copyright was transferred with no record, the author is dead, and no heirs can be found? Where are these?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #48
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So the **** what?
    It's just funny, because a lot of the support comes from people trying to make a living from it, but likely won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And what? That is their right.
    It's there privilege, amenable by law.
    I want to change the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I don't even know what the hell it is you're talking about mostly because it's the same old nonsense from people who simply want to be allowed to download Cowboys and Aliens without paying for it. Here I'll make it simple for you. If you don't want to pay for the work of other people, that's fine. However stop being so ridiculously dishonest with everyone here and simply admit it. Don't act as if there is some sort of serious ethical argument and some little 15 year old who made a worthless app is going to be the most affected. The overwhelming majority of downloads are of modern music, modern movies and mainstream entertainment. People aren't exactly lining up to torrent the entire works of Jose Marti or Plato. They're downloading Twilight, Justin Beiber and whomever else is famous today.
    I haven't DL'ed anything in quite some time, so you're incorrect.
    I don't have a problem paying for some things like this.

    I just don't believe in rent seeking.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #49
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You really should stop using legal terms you don't really have a grasp of and using Wikipedia as backup.

    Adverse possession takes a LONG time and requires quite a few specific things. It's nothing whatever like mere trespass.
    Typically 7 years.
    You're still trespassing, before adverse possession takes place.




    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Of works where the copyright was transferred with no record, the author is dead, and no heirs can be found? Where are these?
    Welcome to the Shared Digital Future | www.hathitrust.org
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #50
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's just funny, because a lot of the support comes from people trying to make a living from it, but likely won't.
    The above is just one long run-on sentence with so many ambiguities it's not even worth addressing.

    It's there privilege, amenable by law.
    I want to change the law.
    Nonsense. It's called a COPYRIGHT - not a COPYPRIVILEDGE. Copyright laws pertain to defense of intellectual property as the right of the author.

    I haven't DL'ed anything in quite some time, so you're incorrect.
    I don't have a problem paying for some things like this.
    I just don't believe in rent seeking.
    Still being dishonest huh Harry? So here let's put our cards on the deck - what is it you downloaded? 40 year old music? 50 year old movies maybe? Maybe you were searching for a e-Book version of Coptic scrolls from Egypt? What was it you were illegally downloading that you couldn't purchase at your local Wal-Mart?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-21-12 at 08:06 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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