View Poll Results: How long should a copyright last before the I.P. becomes public domain?

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  • There should be no such thing as a copyright.

    6 5.71%
  • 1-20 years after intellectual property is created

    19 18.10%
  • 21-40 years after intellectual property is created

    2 1.90%
  • 41-60 years after intellectual property is created

    1 0.95%
  • The copyright should last as long as the creator of the intellectual property is still alive

    24 22.86%
  • 1-20 after the original creator of the intellectual property has died

    14 13.33%
  • 21-40 after the original creator of the intellectual property has died

    3 2.86%
  • 41-60 after the original creator of the intellectual property has died

    3 2.86%
  • The copyright on the intellectual property should last forever (a perpetual copyright.)

    20 19.05%
  • other idea or I do not know(please specify)

    13 12.38%
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Thread: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

  1. #91
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You said this.
    That is incorrect.

    Litigation can happen, if an orphaned work is infringed upon.
    If it does, then it isn't actually orphaned.

    But you have, as I quoted above.
    Sorry, but no.



    You can trespass and then acquire a piece of property through adverse possession.
    So you keep repeating, and it still has nothing to do with what I said. Wow.



    Physical property can be acquire through abandonment and adverse possession.

    Lost, mislaid and abandoned property has to be found by the owner, for the owner to continue to keep it.
    That's not "adverse possession." Crikey, even your Wikipedia article should have told you that.

    With orphan works, the opposite is true.
    Another thing you keep repeating for reasons which are far from clear, other than for some reason you think it some bearing on what I said. This is your own strawman red herring, dude.


    The person intent on using the property has to identify the true owner, else they may be infringing on the property rights of said owner.
    It's a contradiction of the law.
    Here's a hint -- just because you've repeated this so many times you don't even remember what you were responding to, it doesn't mean that I'm confused. I still know that this is your own bizarre tangent that doesn't address any point I made.



    You were wrong.
    You have no idea what I even said anymore. You aren't even responding to any of my actual points; you're just going on about the things you've decided you want to go on about.


    I gave you a link to orphan works.
    Which I didn't ask for. Good grief; you quoted me; can you not read simple plain words? You also went back to the post it was in; can you not see anything like, I dunno, context? I didn't ask the question out of the blue.



    You're general attitude towards those who want changes to IP law, like me.
    Gives me the idea that you aren't exactly concerned with the problems within the IP set of laws.

    You've dismissed the problems associated with orphan works.
    I could be wrong, but again, I don't believe you really care what I have to say.
    I asked you what my position on IP is. This doesn't answer that question.

    Should be obvious -- you don't even know.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  2. #92
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Legality doesn't matter, people still download these things for free, regardless.
    The media business is still profitable.
    Yeah, because enough people still respect the law. Make it legal, and that'll change; media business will collapse. Obtuseness lies in denying this.

    But it has already been harmed substantially by the growing number who don't respect the law.


    I'm allowed to clarify, am I not?
    Fair enough.



    No, I said I did.
    My actions were done, based on the choices, I had available to me.

    If there wasn't a demo version or an option of full refund, I try before I buy.
    Well, that's an illegal choice, whether or not it's "available."

    Obviously you want this, so I don't know why you keep denying you want free stuff.


    I do not believe I'm entitled to get something for free, but I like to have the option of wanting to try something before I decide to pay for it.
    Self-contradiction. Or, at the very least, you simply admit you do things you know you're not entitled to. So again, I don't know why you keep denying it.


    There is a difference.
    Sure, a free demo from the publisher isn't stealing; downloading a pirated copy is. A stark difference, indeed.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #93
    Sage
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    If it does, then it isn't actually orphaned.

    Sorry, but no.
    Can a work have an unknown author, be infringed upon and then litigation ensue?

    It can be orphaned if the author can't be found.
    It appears you don't have any idea of what you're talking about.



    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So you keep repeating, and it still has nothing to do with what I said. Wow.
    And I told you I'm not going to find each individual set of orphaned works that you want.
    It's not gonna happen.

    I gave you a link to a library of orphaned works that may have many of the factors you want.
    Like wow.




    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    That's not "adverse possession." Crikey, even your Wikipedia article should have told you that.
    Lost, mislaid and abandoned property is not adverse possession.
    I am aware of that.

    I identified two different ways one can acquire physical property without having to consult with the owner, which you said, "Umm, it doesn't apply to most any other kind of property, either. Not even all real property."

    You were wrong and you're trying to deflect.
    Wow.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Another thing you keep repeating for reasons which are far from clear, other than for some reason you think it some bearing on what I said. This is your own strawman red herring, dude.
    Well it does, because the law is in contradiction and puts a higher burden on those seeking to use orphaned IP.
    It serves a purpose to point out contradictions in comparable law.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Here's a hint -- just because you've repeated this so many times you don't even remember what you were responding to, it doesn't mean that I'm confused. I still know that this is your own bizarre tangent that doesn't address any point I made.
    It's a tangent related to law, in which the terms of one are not the same as the terms of another, I want to correct the law.
    You say I want to, "get free stuff."

    I guess I'm pointing out that my interest is more than getting "free stuff."



    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You have no idea what I even said anymore. You aren't even responding to any of my actual points; you're just going on about the things you've decided you want to go on about.
    I do.
    You were wrong, in relation to this quote, "Umm, it doesn't apply to most any other kind of property, either. Not even all real property."


    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Which I didn't ask for. Good grief; you quoted me; can you not read simple plain words? You also went back to the post it was in; can you not see anything like, I dunno, context? I didn't ask the question out of the blue.
    And I already told you that I'm not going to find all these individual things you asked for.
    Can you not read simple plain words?

    I gave you a link to a library full of orphan works, that are orphaned for various reasons, some of which I'm sure satisfy your needs for proof.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I asked you what my position on IP is. This doesn't answer that question.

    Should be obvious -- you don't even know.
    I don't.
    Please tell me.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #94
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yeah, because enough people still respect the law. Make it legal, and that'll change; media business will collapse. Obtuseness lies in denying this.

    But it has already been harmed substantially by the growing number who don't respect the law.
    People buy it, because enough people want to pay for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Well, that's an illegal choice, whether or not it's "available."

    Obviously you want this, so I don't know why you keep denying you want free stuff.
    Just because something is illegal, doesn't make it wrong.

    If I pay for something, then it isn't free.
    Your accusations contradict reality.



    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Self-contradiction. Or, at the very least, you simply admit you do things you know you're not entitled to. So again, I don't know why you keep denying it.
    So if I try it and don't want it, then delete it because I derived no benefit, emotional or otherwise, then I'm not getting something for free.
    I've actually lost time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Sure, a free demo from the publisher isn't stealing; downloading a pirated copy is. A stark difference, indeed.
    Sure, but if the publisher gets my money, after I try the pirated copy, have they lost anything to me?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #95
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Can a work have an unknown author, be infringed upon and then litigation ensue?

    It can be orphaned if the author can't be found.
    It appears you don't have any idea of what you're talking about.
    Oh, dude. You type words, but you seem to have no idea what they actually mean.

    I don't even know how to respond to this, because I can't actually believe you wrote it. There's simply no response to such bald-faced obliviousness.

    Maybe it'll dawn on you later. Maybe not. I dunno. It's late; I don't really care anymore.


    And I told you I'm not going to find each individual set of orphaned works that you want.
    It's not gonna happen.

    I gave you a link to a library of orphaned works that may have many of the factors you want.
    Like wow.






    Lost, mislaid and abandoned property is not adverse possession.
    I am aware of that.

    I identified two different ways one can acquire physical property without having to consult with the owner, which you said, "Umm, it doesn't apply to most any other kind of property, either. Not even all real property."

    You were wrong and you're trying to deflect.
    Wow.




    Well it does, because the law is in contradiction and puts a higher burden on those seeking to use orphaned IP.
    It serves a purpose to point out contradictions in comparable law.




    It's a tangent related to law, in which the terms of one are not the same as the terms of another, I want to correct the law.
    You say I want to, "get free stuff."

    I guess I'm pointing out that my interest is more than getting "free stuff."





    I do.
    You were wrong, in relation to this quote, "Umm, it doesn't apply to most any other kind of property, either. Not even all real property."




    And I already told you that I'm not going to find all these individual things you asked for.
    Can you not read simple plain words?

    I gave you a link to a library full of orphan works, that are orphaned for various reasons, some of which I'm sure satisfy your needs for proof.

    Sweet jeebus, I'm not going around in this circle for, what? The third time? Fourth time?

    But it's astounding that you can call me "wrong" for saying adverse possession doesn't apply to other types of property when you yourself say it doesn't. It really is. Which is why I think you have no clue whatsoever what you type from post to post. You're just flailing around to try to keep your head above water.

    I don't.
    Now, hold it -- I thought I was being "inflexible" in my concept of IP, and now you say you don't even know what it is?

    Then how do you know I'm "inflexible"?

    This is the problem we've been having throughout this entire exchange. You're proceeding from an awful lot of things I never said; my position on IP being one of them.

    Get it now?


    Please tell me.
    Some other time. Too much heat here; not enough light.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #96
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    People buy it, because enough people want to pay for it.




    Just because something is illegal, doesn't make it wrong.

    If I pay for something, then it isn't free.
    Your accusations contradict reality.





    So if I try it and don't want it, then delete it because I derived no benefit, emotional or otherwise, then I'm not getting something for free.
    I've actually lost time.



    Sure, but if the publisher gets my money, after I try the pirated copy, have they lost anything to me?
    River in Egypt, my friend. River in Egypt.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #97
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Oh, dude. You type words, but you seem to have no idea what they actually mean.

    I don't even know how to respond to this, because I can't actually believe you wrote it. There's simply no response to such bald-faced obliviousness.

    Maybe it'll dawn on you later. Maybe not. I dunno. It's late; I don't really care anymore.
    Is a work, that has no identifiable author, orphaned or not?
    Is the person seeking the find the author, comes up empty handed in his/her search and then later uses the work, in which the author notices, not liable for the infringement of that work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Sweet jeebus, I'm not going around in this circle for, what? The third time? Fourth time?

    But it's astounding that you can call me "wrong" for saying adverse possession doesn't apply to other types of property when you yourself say it doesn't. It really is. Which is why I think you have no clue whatsoever what you type from post to post. You're just flailing around to try to keep your head above water.
    You took one part of my post and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
    Logically, adverse possession can not apply to other forms of property, besides real property.

    Lost, mislaid and abandoned property does apply to other forms of physical property.

    You're purposefully distorting what I am saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Now, hold it -- I thought I was being "inflexible" in my concept of IP, and now you say you don't even know what it is?

    Then how do you know I'm "inflexible"?

    This is the problem we've been having throughout this entire exchange. You're proceeding from an awful lot of things I never said; my position on IP being one of them.

    Get it now?
    You made the accusation that, all I want is free stuff.
    Turn about is fair play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    River in Egypt, my friend. River in Egypt.
    I get it, you refuse to acknowledge the difference.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 01-22-12 at 02:47 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #98
    Count Smackula
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    The Congress shall have Power ... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
    That is the legal basis for copyright in the U.S. No copyright law should be valid unless it can demonstrate that it "promotes science and useful arts". I love to see anyone justify how 120 year long copyrights promotes the creation of new works. Its reasonable to disagree exactly what the optimum time period should be, its completely unreasonable to ignore the public benefit and simply try and legislate maximum profit. Even if I think that Korimir's 25 year length for books is probably too long given the amount of time the average book actually stays in print, I'll give him credit for a good faith argument. By contrast, Hatuey's entitlement mentality is utterly lacking merit.

  9. #99
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    That is the legal basis for copyright in the U.S. No copyright law should be valid unless it can demonstrate that it "promotes science and useful arts". I love to see anyone justify how 120 year long copyrights promotes the creation of new works. Its reasonable to disagree exactly what the optimum time period should be, its completely unreasonable to ignore the public benefit and simply try and legislate maximum profit. Even if I think that Korimir's 25 year length for books is probably too long given the amount of time the average book actually stays in print, I'll give him credit for a good faith argument. By contrast, Hatuey's entitlement mentality is utterly lacking merit.
    But it sounds like you're assuming that there's no public benefit to a work until the copyright expires. That's not true at all. Having a work of art (or invention, in the case of patents) in existence benefits the public even when the public has to actually pay for it. The promotion of "science and useful arts" begins the day the work or invention exists, not the day it is free.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  10. #100
    Professor
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    Re: How long should a copyright last before it becomes public domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    . I think the overwhelming majority people who are opposed to IP laws in their present form are simply trying to get **** for free and have ZERO interest in using IP to create their own original works.
    I think that unless you actually have proof, this is a baseless claim.

    As for you thinking your descendants should be able to hold the copyright over your works so long as there are people in your biological family, congrats - that completely breaks copyright. The CONSTITUTION even states that it is supposed to be FOR A LIMITED TIME. For as long as people exist in your family to have them passed down to != limited time.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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