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Thread: Best Modern President 1960 -

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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    NONE. To imply that there was a "Best" POTUS since 1960 there has to have been a Good POTUS since 1960 and I would suggest that is not true. In fact there hasn't been a Good POTUS since prior to 1860.

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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Kind of depends on what you mean by 'Best'. Best for whom? For their country? For the World? For their supporters? How are you going to introduce a degree of objectivity that would allow presidents from different political cultures, different eras and facing widely different challenges to be compared. If you are just looking for a political beauty contest then the clear front-runner would be Nelson Mandela.

    Perhaps you'd like to frame your assumptions a little more clearly before we vote.
    An "ugly contest" would be any of the conservative candidates, running in America..

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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    Barack Obama. He has the exact "look" America needs to solve its problems. It was he who had the experience in 2008, not Sarah Palin. He is also the author of much "change" in America. Only a brain dead knuckle dragging bigot would choose anyone other than this beloved human being.
    Last edited by Sunbelt; 01-20-12 at 10:19 AM.

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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger
    NONE. To imply that there was a "Best" POTUS since 1960 there has to have been a Good POTUS since 1960 and I would suggest that is not true. In fact there hasn't been a Good POTUS since prior to 1860.
    Well...I would challenge the factual accuracy of your claim, but I'm not going to, as I suspect it wouldn't lead to anything good. I would like to point out, however, that "best" and "good" are not necessarily related categories. Consider: There's no "good" place to be shot, from the perspective of the person being shot and who is trying to survive the shooting. But there are certainly "best" places to be shot. I'd much rather be shot in the love handle, or in a fleshy part of a leg or arm, than in the groin, or the central mass, or the head. Perhaps the best place to be shot would be the love handle, and second best would probably be something like the extreme periphery of the upper arm.

    Similarly, there is no "good" flu virus from the point of view of the host. But there are certain strains far less virulent and debilitating than others.

    So if you believe there have been no good Presidents since before 1860, you do not necessarily have to believe there isn't a best president since then. If your claim is that, in terms of quality, they're all completely indistinguishable, then of course there wouldn't be a best. But that seems like an awfully difficult position to back up.

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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    If we're talking about US Presidents, I pick Clinton, with Bush sr. as a close second. Not sure about LBJ, though, I don't know enough about him. Maybe he gets honorable mention for the civil rights program.

    Why? Kennedy is overrated and did not have the time to do anything extraordinary, although I really like his Berlin speech. Nixon disqualified himself with Watergate. I don't remember Ford doing anything extraordinary. And while I don't understand the bitter resentment towards Carter, and would not say he was such a bad President after all, he certainly wasn't very good either.

    Reagan may be noteable for getting the economy up and running again, but was hardly the fiscal genious some paint him to be -- he too was into excessive spending next to the cutting. Also, Reagan was too deep into ugly Realpolitik excesses, such as Iran Contra and arming Saddam against Iran, arming the Taliban precursors in Afghanistan against the USSR, which created so much trouble later, which places him far, very far from the "best" label. Without Reagan's policies, Bush jr. wouldn't have had much to do, from 9/11 to Iraq. Reagan messed up, and Bush jr. later had to do the cleaning (and failed too).

    Bush jr. was an abomination on all fields. He did severe damage to political discourse and political culture and failed on almost everything he did, leaving the country broken into pieces and deeply divided. He was the President of human right violations, trigger happy military adventures and economic suicide. Bush jr. played away the surplus he inherited from Clinton, totally in the pockets of big oil and weapon business. He probably was easily the worst of them all. Obama inherited the shattered pieces that once were a prospering country from Bush, restored some minimum of basic sanity, but beyond that, has not had a chance yet to prove how good he is. So let's wait and see how Obama will make in the next months or even next four years. He's still to fresh for a fair estimation.

    This leaves Bush sr. and Clinton. I'm biased in favor of Bush sr., because he proved to be a good friend of my country, by supporting Germany in the exciting days between 11/9/89 and 10/3/1990, allowing a peaceful reunification. He also showed Saddam the limits, without screwing it up like his son did. And Clinton -- he's first, because there is not much bad that comes to mind when I think of him. Sure, the Lewinsky stuff, but I don't really care about that -- and he really did a very reasonable economic policy, leaving an almost balanced budget to Bush jr., who all played it away. Clinton was not a warmonger, but no wimp either, he pushed us Europeans to actions in case of humanitarian disasters such as the war in Yugoslavia, but not easy-handedly, but when all other options had failed.

    So it's Clinton and Bush sr as close second.
    Last edited by German guy; 01-20-12 at 10:31 AM.
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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    The presidential family was a bit of a liability though, eh?
    Every family has at least one.
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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    NONE. To imply that there was a "Best" POTUS since 1960 there has to have been a Good POTUS since 1960 and I would suggest that is not true. In fact there hasn't been a Good POTUS since prior to 1860.
    This is amazing but I partly agree with you minus the things about 1860.

    The last really great president we had was FDR and Truman was very good as well. I would place a tie between Eisenhower and Clinton for the best of the bunch since then but both had glaring weaknesses that hurt the nation - Ike with his timidity about Civil Rights after the Brown decision postponed much of the pain until after he was gone. Clinton signing NAFTA and other deregulatory moves like the repeal of Glass-Steagal which have come back to bite us in the ass bigtime. You cannot judge the current president as the record is not done playing.

    JFK was not in long enough to do much either way.
    LBJ had Viet Nam.
    Nixon continued Viet Nam and then there was that Watergate business which disgraced the office.
    Ford had the disgraceful Nixon pardon.
    Carter was weak and ineffective and the economy tanked.
    Reagan started the love affair with deficits and a thirty year slide in the wrong direction in tax policy.
    The 2 Bushes - the least said the better.

    Just not a great one in the bunch.
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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Thought it might be interesting. How the hell do you make a poll listing? Thought prompt would be automatic.
    Either Bush Senior or Carter. Bush because he brought Israel (kicking and screaming) to the table at Oslo and actually did cut support to dictatorships like the Philippines (leading to the downfall of the Marcos dictatorship) and Carter due to a similar drawdown of support for unpleasant regimes and organisations across the world (though its a shame that when he told the CIA to cease support for the Taliban, they didnt do so)

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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbelt View Post
    Barack Obama. He has the exact "look" America needs to solve its problems. It was he who had the experience in 2008, not Sarah Palin. He is also the author of much "change" in America. Only a brain dead knuckle dragging bigot would choose anyone other than this beloved human being.
    I don't know, that Reagan implemented cap and trade (twice), created amnesty for illegal immigrants, raised taxes, and worked towards disarming our nuclear arsenal...

    Supported terrorists, though. That's a black mark.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Best Modern President 1960 -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbelt View Post
    Barack Obama. He has the exact "look" America needs to solve its problems. It was he who had the experience in 2008, not Sarah Palin. He is also the author of much "change" in America. Only a brain dead knuckle dragging bigot would choose anyone other than this beloved human being.
    Yes, we all love that "hope and change", don't we?

    I know you're joking, just so you know I don't think you are crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT on Nov 8th, 2012 View Post
    Over the next four years the economy will continue to rebound and we will gradually get deficits under control. The real esate market will rebound, unemployment will fall to 6.5% or below, and GDP growth will stand at 3.5 - 4%. We won't be in any wars. And conservatives will still be whining.

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