View Poll Results: If a person smears a Christian as a "homophobe," should that person returh fire?

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  • Yes. If they call you a homophobe you should be able to comment on their morals/etc.

    5 16.67%
  • No, they shouldn't return fire because they deserve it.

    1 3.33%
  • Simply ignore the smears and continue debating.

    3 10.00%
  • How about we show some respect and NOT smear eachother?

    16 53.33%
  • Don't know/Other

    5 16.67%
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Thread: Slander in Politics

  1. #81
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I don't think it is close enough at all. A phobia is very different to simply a misfounded fear. .
    No it's not, not in common usage.

    People have borrowed the term "phobia" from psychology to mean any irrational fear.

    The point is that it is an attempt at an unofficial diagnosis
    That's silly. Nobody is saying homophobes have a psychological disorder. It's just an easier way to say "you have an irrational fear."

    It is both a psychological word with a specific definition and a common word with a less specific one.
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No it's not, not in common usage.

    People have borrowed the term "phobia" from psychology to mean any irrational fear.
    No they haven't. Irrational means rationally unsupported. You do not call every such fear a phobia. If I fear walking through the park at night because I might be attacked, and there is only a 1% chance I will then that is irrational, but it is not a phobia. You are basically equating all fears which aren't completely rational with phobias. You have destroyed the meaning of the word phobia.

    That's silly. Nobody is saying homophobes have a psychological disorder. It's just an easier way to say "you have an irrational fear."

    It is both a psychological word with a specific definition and a common word with a less specific one.
    Or you could just say you are wrong, instead of playing with words. It is a sinister and silly word meant to diagnose one's opponents. Hence it is used towards all those who disagree with the legitimacy of homosexuality, even those who do so in a calm way and use rational argument. If it were only used against the unthinking and totally prejudiced then I might, just agree, but it isn't. It is used against all who do not think homosexuality is moral, which is further proof it is an underhanded and sinister attempt to diagnose one's opponents.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-22-12 at 06:03 PM.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    No they haven't. Irrational means rationally unsupported. You do not call every such fear a phobia. If I fear walking through the park at night because I might be attacked, and there is only a 1% chance I will then that is irrational, but it is not a phobia. You are basically equating all fears which aren't completely rational with phobias. You have destroyed the meaning of the word phobia.
    No, fear of walking in the park is rational, even at 1%.

    Or you could just say you are wrong, instead of playing with words. It is a sinister and silly word meant to diagnose one's opponents. Hence it is used towards all those who disagree with the legitimacy of homosexuality, even those who do so in a calm way and use rational argument. If it were only used against the unthinking and totally prejudiced then I might, just agree, but it isn't. It is used against all who do not think homosexuality is moral, which is further proof it is an underhanded and sinister attempt to diagnose one's opponents.
    You're the one trying to abuse words here. You're calling a common word a "diagnosis." Nobody who uses it thinks it is.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, fear of walking in the park is rational, even at 1%.
    Not really, you could say almost anything is a rational fear then unless you draw a proper distinction.


    You're the one trying to abuse words here. You're calling a common word a "diagnosis." Nobody who uses it thinks it is.
    They think it is an unofficial diagnosis, they think it is declaring that all those, and it is all and not just the absolute gay bashing bigots, who do not think homosexuality is completely valid are suffering from the same sort of disorder as someone who can't be in the same room with spider.

    I do wish you would stop playing with words. You are now trying to redefine all misguided fears as phobias.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #85
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, fear of walking in the park is rational, even at 1%.



    You're the one trying to abuse words here. You're calling a common word a "diagnosis." Nobody who uses it thinks it is.
    I fear you're banging your head against the brick wall of Wessex's self-regard. He's the authority on lexicography, not that damn Merriam-Webster guy, what does HE know?
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I fear you're banging your head against the brick wall of Wessex's self-regard. He's the authority on lexicography, not that damn Merriam-Webster guy, what does HE know?
    You mean the Oxford English dictionary surely? What does an American English dictionary have to do with us?

    You don't use dictionaries to simply settle in depth disputes about terminology, nor how it is used in society or how it should be used. The dictionaries simply say socialists want to have the government control the means of production. Do libertarian socialists simply give up completely when confronted with such in depth refutation from a bloody dictionary? Someone should have told Franco. He could have defeated those pesky anarchists by lobbing dictionaries at them instead of wasting all those men and munitions
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-22-12 at 06:25 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #87
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Both sides do it.

    I can honestly say though that the constant irrational accusations of being a bigoted hate fulled homophobe never once impacted my change to supporting SSM, if anything it hindered it. You are never going to change another person's mind or have them even respect your opinion when you hurl insults at those you are debating.
    Last edited by digsbe; 01-22-12 at 06:23 PM.
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  8. #88
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Not really, you could say almost anything is a rational fear then unless you draw a proper distinction.
    Is fear of walking in the park at night a phobia? It's a fear. If it's not a phobia, what is it?

    They think it is an unofficial diagnosis, they think it is declaring that all those, and it is all and not just the absolute gay bashing bigots, who do not think homosexuality is completely valid are suffering from the same sort of disorder as someone who can't be in the same room with spider.
    You can read their minds?

    I use the term "homophobe" and I certainly don't mean it that way.

    I do wish you would stop playing with words. You are now trying to redefine all misguided fears as phobias.
    No, you are trying to redefine "phobia" as nothing more than a psychological term. It no longer is just that. It can mean just a misguided fear.

    But hey, let's stop worrying about a word. Many people who disapprove of homosexuality are acting out of nothing but a misguided fear. Okay?
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  9. #89
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Both sides do it.

    I can honestly say though that the constant irrational accusations of being a bigoted hate fulled homophobe never once impacted my change to supporting SSM, if anything it hindered it. You are never going to change another person's mind or have them even respect your opinion when you hurl insults at those you are debating.
    I don't consider "homophobe" an insult, just an observation.
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  10. #90
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Is fear of walking in the park at night a phobia? It's a fear. If it's not a phobia, what is it?
    It is a fear, a sometimes mildly misguided one, which is not the same thing as a phobia.


    You can read their minds?

    I use the term "homophobe" and I certainly don't mean it that way.
    I can interpret what they are implying and the connotations of what they say and how they say it.

    No, you are trying to redefine "phobia" as nothing more than a psychological term. It no longer is just that. It can mean just a misguided fear.
    No, you are trying to redefine phobia to mean simply any at all misguided fear. This is not what it means. Even the dictionary implies this;

    Phobia | Define Phobia at Dictionary.com

    pho·bi·a
       [foh-bee-uh] Show IPA
    noun
    a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.


    It is vague, but it implies something closer to a phobia of spiders than how you wish to redefine the term. Though of course I do not take the dictionary as gospel for sophisticated, social meaning of such terms.
    [
    But hey, let's stop worrying about a word. Many people who disapprove of homosexuality are acting out of nothing but a misguided fear. Okay?
    I don't agree. Many are acting more out of rationally unexamined conceptions certainly, though just as many on the pro-homosexual side are so from largely narrow and unexamined prejudice. That I will agree to.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-22-12 at 06:58 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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