View Poll Results: If a person smears a Christian as a "homophobe," should that person returh fire?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. If they call you a homophobe you should be able to comment on their morals/etc.

    5 16.67%
  • No, they shouldn't return fire because they deserve it.

    1 3.33%
  • Simply ignore the smears and continue debating.

    3 10.00%
  • How about we show some respect and NOT smear eachother?

    16 53.33%
  • Don't know/Other

    5 16.67%
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Thread: Slander in Politics

  1. #31
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I didn't want to show my agreement or disagreement in this case - but the larger focus isn't about the psychoanalytical meaning - that's a red herring. The majority of people use a modern vernacular colloquially, not via a definition. Rap music, local cultural norms, television, popular culture.... all of these meanings and sub-meaning and slangs have much more to do with how we process language than the actual etymology of words. Even highly educated and professional are ignorant of their own language beyond what they learned in schools. I think we're looking at the issue the wrong way. We should be looking at how these words are used culturally and socially to understand the meaning and not in the modern dictionary definitions.
    I can't find anything to disagree with in your post. Dictionary definitions do tend to be a snapshot in time of perceived meaning. As soon as a word is published its meaning may have changed in popular social and cultural understanding.

    Coincidentally, as I'm rwriting this I'm listening to a BBC Radio 4 programme about the evolution of words. That is sooo weird! Pure coincidence, it just followed on from the midday news. They are discussing the etymology of the word 'stroke'. At the moment they are explaining that in early English the word derived from the idea of being struck by the hand of God. Interesting stuff. Check it out, you can listen to it here....
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  2. #32
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    If I am not mistaken, the original typical usage of homophobia was a person who internally feared himself being gay or having desire for gay sex and then lashing out against homosexuality as a self defense/self denial. This then shifted towards people who openly expressed hatred of gays.
    Yes, more or less. That what I'm arguing.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  3. #33
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Yes, more or less. That what I'm arguing.
    But , in the grand scheme of things, the homosexuals are but small potatoes (LE 10% of the population).
    But, I think that hatred and fear are major problems in our society.
    This, we must work on.
    Not so long ago, "gay" meant happy, carefree.
    BTW, not so long ago, I was but a child...and we would insult/abase/abuse our opponent....part of immaturity.
    Obviously, some never "grow up"...
    Last edited by earthworm; 01-20-12 at 11:42 AM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Why shouldn't those being smeared with those malicious insults not turn around and at least chastise them on their moral degeneracy?
    Our society is moving towards a direction where morality isn't dictated by bronze age texts. Some are happy with that, others not so happy, but overall telling someone they are a moral degenerate because they don't follow strictly your views doesn't fly and would be ignored by the majority of people.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  5. #35
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    But , in the grand scheme of things, the homosexuals are but small potatoes (LE 10% of the population).
    But, I think that hatred and fear are major problems in our society.
    That's part of why homophobia is recognised to be the irrational hatred of homosexuals. It probably stems from the myth that someone can be 'recruited' to be gay, can be persuaded, against their orientation, to abandon 'normality'.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Slander in Politics

    A couple of things. Some on the left (as with any group) will take it too far and hurl undeserving insults. However, the religious right has brought this upon themselves by spewing forth a plethora of bigoted statements over the years and have even gone as far to use the government to deny gay people the same rights as heterosexual.

    Should you seek retribution? Given that you are a Christian, I find this is an extremely odd question to ask. I would have figured that you were familiar with the Bible, especially the versus found within Matthew 5:38-42 and Luke 6:27-31.
    Last edited by Antiderivative; 01-20-12 at 12:38 PM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I have a few questions.

    I notice that there are people who are more socially-liberal who, continuously, insult the more socially-conservative for their stances on social issues.

    This is what I ask: If a liberal slanders a Christian by calling him/her a "homophobe/whatever," why should that person not turn around and insult the person's degenerate moral character?

    What do we do about this? Why is it that those more on the left are allowed to smear people with epithets of "racist/homophobe/bigot/etc?"

    Why shouldn't those being smeared with those malicious insults not turn around and at least chastise them on their moral degeneracy?

    Or, better yet, why can't we seem to get people [all people] to stop smearing/insulting eachother?
    You made a basic error in your thinking. Not all Christians are homophobes. Therefore, when one calls a Christian a homophobe that person is describing a particular character of the other. (Now, if you think that to be a real Christian you must be a homophobe, your poll has yet another problem; and, you too.

  8. #38
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Christians have been judging people by their own standards for about 2000 years so I think they can handle it...
    And, I'd say that one out of a thousand is worthy of being a judge., if that many.....
    Tolerance to replace judgementalism ( a new word ??)

  9. #39
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    You made a basic error in your thinking. Not all Christians are homophobes. Therefore, when one calls a Christian a homophobe that person is describing a particular character of the other. (Now, if you think that to be a real Christian you must be a homophobe, your poll has yet another problem; and, you too.
    I t think so. To be homophobic, you must have an "irrational fear," as well as a hatred for homosexuals. I see this schism is from a result of bias. A Christian who follows the scriptures, and does not vote to advance encroaching homosexuality in our nation, is neither hateful nor afraid. Do you also look at the Christian who is against fornication/whatever, and call him/her afraid? Granted, there are many people in this world who call themselves Christians, from liberals to conservatives. The true Christian is not to hate. The socially-liberal is more inclined to view the Christian's hatred of sin as, unfortunately, the hatred of sinner, which is untrue. A real Christian is neither homophobe nor ignorer of scriptures. The problem is that some liberals have twisted the meanings of words to smear Christians. The Christians dislike immortality, so call 'em irrational prudes, Jesus freaks, ignorant and bigoted, etc. A Christian doesn't have to accept the sin of homosexuality in order to not be a homophobe.

  10. #40
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    And, I'd say that one out of a thousand is worthy of being a judge., if that many.....
    Tolerance to replace judgementalism ( a new word ??)
    That's a wind that blows both ways, right?

    As I said in a previous post, it's best to be circumspect about calling someone an out-and-out homophobe, but that's a slightly different issue to identifying statements and insults as homophobic.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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