View Poll Results: If a person smears a Christian as a "homophobe," should that person returh fire?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. If they call you a homophobe you should be able to comment on their morals/etc.

    5 16.67%
  • No, they shouldn't return fire because they deserve it.

    1 3.33%
  • Simply ignore the smears and continue debating.

    3 10.00%
  • How about we show some respect and NOT smear eachother?

    16 53.33%
  • Don't know/Other

    5 16.67%
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Thread: Slander in Politics

  1. #161
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Teamosil, actually my entire point has been trying to get you to argue your position rather than simply keep assuming it and begging the question. You are half-way there, you give some arguments in favour the validity and morality of homosexuality. You do start with a lot of spiel about what rights are which is largely still question begging. You still have a lot of work to do before you get over the urge to just post you own views as if they were gospel and without even seemingly recognising you were just begging the question. But you are moving in the right direction, it is good to see.

    All the stuff about rights, what marriage is and its effects on society requires a good deal more argument and less unexamined assumptions though.
    Why do homosexuals need to validate their morality anymore than heterosexuals?

    If you aren't having a relationship with another man...then what's concern? There's no proof that homosexual behaviors negatively impact heterosexuals.

    There's a reason for incorporating the terms "homo" and "hetero" with the suffix sexuality. Homo= same ....hetero different...

    But yet...there's no link to homo behaviors that damage hetero communities. I'd say it's the opposite. Or at least thats my observation as a heterosexual man.

  2. #162
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    You are half-way there, you give some arguments in favour the validity and morality of homosexuality.
    You just fundamentally are going off in the wrong direction on this whole inquiry. I'm not arguing that homosexuality is "moral". That has nothing to do with anything whether one particular moral system approves or it or doesn't. The point is that it isn't any of your business what other people do in their personal lives so long as it doesn't effect you, so it doesn't matter one iota whether you think it is moral or not.

  3. #163
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Why do homosexuals need to validate their morality anymore than heterosexuals?

    If you aren't having a relationship with another man...then what's concern? There's no proof that homosexual behaviors negatively impact heterosexuals.

    There's a reason for incorporating the terms "homo" and "hetero" with the suffix sexuality. Homo= same ....hetero different...

    But yet...there's no link to homo behaviors that damage hetero communities. I'd say it's the opposite. Or at least thats my observation as a heterosexual man.
    The point is that Teamosil was making claims like Christians, who believe homosexuality is a sin, are bigots without ever arguing his position or backing up his assumptions. I'm not about to have an in depth argument about the matter, I was just trying to get him to stop making massive, unexamined and unsupported assumptions.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #164
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You just fundamentally are going off in the wrong direction on this whole inquiry. I'm not arguing that homosexuality is "moral". That has nothing to do with anything whether one particular moral system approves or it or doesn't. The point is that it isn't any of your business what other people do in their personal lives so long as it doesn't effect you, so it doesn't matter one iota whether you think it is moral or not.
    Who says it isn't your business. The problem with you Teamosil is you can't seem to stop making claims which require support, support you don't give them.

    You may be right it no one else's business, but you have to argue it. Otherwise why can't I just say the opposite back to you with just as much back up, or lack thereof.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #165
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The point is that Teamosil was making claims like Christians, who believe homosexuality is a sin, are bigots without ever arguing his position or backing up his assumptions. I'm not about to have an in depth argument about the matter, I was just trying to get him to stop making massive, unexamined and unsupported assumptions.
    WHAT THE Hell you talking about Wessexman?

    Read the following and repeat your point above. You must be reading somebody elses post...

    Quote Originally Posted by TEAMOSIl
    You just fundamentally are going off in the wrong direction on this whole inquiry. I'm not arguing that homosexuality is "moral". That has nothing to do with anything whether one particular moral system approves or it or doesn't. The point is that it isn't any of your business what other people do in their personal lives so long as it doesn't effect you, so it doesn't matter one iota whether you think it is moral or not.
    Excuse me...but that's far from you're claim above...way far off.

  6. #166
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Who says it isn't your business. The problem with you Teamosil is you can't seem to stop making claims which require support, support you don't give them.

    You may be right it no one else's business, but you have to argue it. Otherwise why can't I just say the opposite back to you with just as much back up, or lack thereof.
    I did support my position. You haven't come up with a counter argument. Again:

    There are two parties in this question- you, who thinks gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry, and gay people who want to marry the people they love. If you succeed in prohibiting them from getting married, you are not any better off. You aren't affected in any way. But they are worse off- they no longer can marry the person they love. So you hurt them and didn't even get anything out of it yourself. That is, obviously, a bad trade, right?

  7. #167
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    WHAT THE Hell you talking about Wessexman?

    Read the following and repeat your point above. You must be reading somebody elses post...



    Excuse me...but that's far from you're claim above...way far off.
    Or just perhaps I'm talking about an entire discussion that has gone on for many pages now.

    But that post does beg questions, it begs the question of whether it is none of our business what people do in their personal lives. I'm not saying this is wrong or right, simply it has to be argued.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #168
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Sure, anyone can oppose it, but it doesn't mean that one's use of the accusation of bigotry is a legitimate complaint.
    That's fine.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  9. #169
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I did support my position. You haven't come up with a counter argument. Again:
    You supported it with more question begging. You supported your unproved assumption that such Christians are bigots with the unproved assumption it is not their business what homosexuals do.

    There are two parties in this question- you, who thinks gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry, and gay people who want to marry the people they love. If you succeed in prohibiting them from getting married, you are not any better off. You aren't affected in any way. But they are worse off- they no longer can marry the person they love. So you hurt them and didn't even get anything out of it yourself. That is, obviously, a bad trade, right?
    This is closer to an argument. It is very brief and needs a lot of its points exploring much further however. For instance you are simply asserting they'd not be worse off and ignoring the social meanings and place of marriage. You would have to address these before your argument was even slightly useable, but you are getting there. You aren't quite just making the most completely unsupported assumptions any more.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-23-12 at 07:42 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #170
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    You supported it with more question begging. You supported your unproved assumption that such Christians are bigots with the unproved assumption it is not their business what homosexuals do.
    I'm not really sure what you're looking for. There isn't such a thing as like objective evidence and proofs of answers to moral questions. Morality is just subjective preferences people have. The closest we can do is to explain to somebody why what they are doing is hurting other people and hope that their morals tell them that hurting people is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    This is closer to an argument. It is very brief and needs a lot of its points exploring much further however. For instance you are simply asserting they'd not be worse off and ignoring the social meanings and place of marriage. You would have to address these before your argument was even slightly useable, but you are getting there. You aren't quite just making the most completely unsupported assumptions any more.
    Of course it hurts somebody to be forced to live a life unable to marry the person they love and stigmatized and insulted... You can't really deny that....

    So go ahead, what's your response?

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