View Poll Results: If a person smears a Christian as a "homophobe," should that person returh fire?

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  • Yes. If they call you a homophobe you should be able to comment on their morals/etc.

    5 16.67%
  • No, they shouldn't return fire because they deserve it.

    1 3.33%
  • Simply ignore the smears and continue debating.

    3 10.00%
  • How about we show some respect and NOT smear eachother?

    16 53.33%
  • Don't know/Other

    5 16.67%
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Thread: Slander in Politics

  1. #151
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    As In said this is all question begging. Who says it is bigotry?
    Because they said so, damn it.

  2. #152
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Because they said so, damn it.
    LOL Wake!
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  3. #153
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    "Homophobe" implies irrational fear/contempt/hatred for homosexuals. Christians who view homosexuality as a sin have none of those ill feeling towards homosexuals.

    You don't have to wish all homosexuals would die to be a homophobe. Just like you don't have to want to kill all spiders to be arachnophobic. It's about wishing a certain "thing" would keep out of your life. You wish it didn't exist, or at least that you wouldn't have to witness its existence. You can't be tolerant or respectful of it when it does appear.

    A lot of homophobes have good intentions. But they do, at the end of the day, have an irrational fear/contempt for homosexuality.

    Usually, if I call someone a homophobe, it's because they already have insulted my morals, or worse, insulted my right to be treated equal to anyone else.
    Last edited by Cameron; 01-23-12 at 06:36 PM.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  4. #154
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    As I said this is all question begging. Who says it is bigotry?
    If persecuting a demographic group because they are different than you, and trying to deny them equal rights, isn't bigotry then what the hell would be? Obviously that's bigotry...

  5. #155
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If persecuting a demographic group because they are different than you, and trying to deny them equal rights, isn't bigotry then what the hell would be? Obviously that's bigotry...
    This is yet more question begging. Bank robbers and pedophiles are different to me, I do not mind persecuting them. You are simply assuming, without arguing, the homosexuality is completely moral and legitimate and it deserves what you call 'equal rights'. You may or may not be right, but you have to argue for it and not keep assuming it.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  6. #156
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    This is yet more question begging. Bank robbers and pedophiles are different to me, I do not mind persecuting them. You are simply assuming, without arguing, the homosexuality is completely moral and legitimate and it deserves what you call 'equal rights'. You may or may not be right, but you have to argue for it and not keep assuming it.
    Bank robbers and pedophiles hurt other people. Try another example maybe?

  7. #157
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Bank robbers and pedophiles hurt other people. Try another example maybe?
    Or try to argue for your position. Why is directly hurting other people the standard of what is moral and valid?

    Have you ever considered busking? You have developed a real flair for begging. Every post is more assumptions and question begging.

    And please respond to my original point, I'm not one to get away with such games;

    You are simply assuming, without arguing, the homosexuality is completely moral and legitimate and it deserves what you call 'equal rights'. You may or may not be right, but you have to argue for it and not keep assuming it.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-23-12 at 07:00 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #158
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Or try to argue for your position. Why is directly hurting other people the standard of what is moral and valid?
    You seem to just be lacking some very basic understandings about rights, homosexuality and how our society is set up and whatnot.

    For starters, if you do something that doesn't hurt anybody else, it is generally outside of the realm of things the law can reach. You can see how absurd it is by putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Imagine, for example, that 51% of people felt that you and your wife or someone you want to marry were not a good match, so they forbade you from marrying. Would that seem reasonable to you? Of course not. For obvious reasons- they wouldn't be any better off by you not getting married. It has no effect on them at all. But you would be worse off because you couldn't marry the person you loved. A net loss for society. Same deal with this. If you succeed in preventing gay people from marrying the people they love, you gain nothing whatsoever, but they lose the ability to marry the person they love. A net loss for society. That seems pretty obvious and basic, so I don't mean to be patronizing, but it seems like you're missing some of the basics, so I want to cover all the ground.

    Secondly, gay people don't choose to be gay any more than straight people choose to be straight. People are attracted to who they are attracted to, not who they wish they were attracted to. In fact, there are many gay people who want desperately to be straight. Kids who commit suicide when they realize they are gay because they are so upset by it. Adults who live entire sham marriages trying to force themselves to be straight over decades that never manage it. All you are doing when you persecute gay people is attacking a demographic group that never did anything wrong. Even a gay person who never has sex with somebody else of their same sex is brutally harmed by your attacks and there is nothing they can do to evade them. They just end up tortured, self hating, miserable messes. And for what? Just so you can go around feeling superior about yourself?

  9. #159
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    "Homophobe" implies irrational fear/contempt/hatred for homosexuals. Christians who view homosexuality as a sin have none of those ill feeling towards homosexuals.

    You sound like a lot of Muslims who dispute the violent teachings in the Quran.

    How about.... King James Version of the bible that says... “If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.”

    You know how many Christians use this verse to justify their violent beliefs toward homosexuals?

    That verse doesn't say...Love the Sinner, but hate the Sin...

  10. #160
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Teamosil, actually my entire point has been trying to get you to argue your position rather than simply keep assuming it and begging the question. You are half-way there, you give some arguments in favour the validity and morality of homosexuality. You do start with a lot of spiel about what rights are which is largely still question begging. You still have a lot of work to do before you get over the urge to just post your own views as if they were gospel and without even seemingly recognising you were just begging the question. But you are moving in the right direction, it is good to see.

    All the stuff about rights, what marriage is and its effects on society requires a good deal more argument and less unexamined assumptions though.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-23-12 at 07:22 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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