View Poll Results: If a person smears a Christian as a "homophobe," should that person returh fire?

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  • Yes. If they call you a homophobe you should be able to comment on their morals/etc.

    5 16.67%
  • No, they shouldn't return fire because they deserve it.

    1 3.33%
  • Simply ignore the smears and continue debating.

    3 10.00%
  • How about we show some respect and NOT smear eachother?

    16 53.33%
  • Don't know/Other

    5 16.67%
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Thread: Slander in Politics

  1. #141
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Huh?

    You used a word in a way most don't.
    Let me get enough people to misuse a word and, huzzah, we get to change the meaning of the word.

  2. #142
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I don't believe it is bigoted, as there is a basis for their belief, whether rational or irrational as you may yourself believe it is. Their behavior isn't really behavior, but is expression of thought and opinion. Behavior would be something that is concrete and enforceable. Thoughts and opinions don't fit the definition of behaviors.
    When one moves their lips and words make themselves available to ears other than the person saying them...it's a behavior. An individual's personal thoughts become a part of their environment once they openly express them in writing, talking to a friend or a group.

    Openly expressed thoughts (in writing, acted out, spoken, etc) "is a behavior" that can influence the behaviors of others...not just a person thinking or feeling something and then potentially acting on it.

  3. #143
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Exactly what I said. The original definition of bigot is "religious hypocrite". Just because "most people" don't understand the difference between a bigot and someone who holds to their beliefs in an honest manner, it doesn't mean that the definition has changed. It just reflects that people like to throw terms around for the purpose of inflaming those with whom they don't agree, and trying to emotionally manipulate them into submission.
    Yes, the definition has changed.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Let me get enough people to misuse a word and, huzzah, we get to change the meaning of the word.
    Yes. That's how language works - enough people agree on the meaning, and often, that means meanings change.

    In fact, you use lots of words every day that mean something totally different from their original meaning.

    So until you go look up every single one of the words you use and make sure you go back to the Middle Ages or whatever and stick to their original meaning, you don't get to declare that nobody else can use words by the commonly understood meanings.

    Take the very first word in your sentence above "let":

    let (v.)
    O.E. lętan "to allow, let go, bequeath, leave," also "to rent" (class VII strong verb; past tense let, pp. lęten), from P.Gmc. *lętan (cf. O.S. latan, O.Fris. leta, Du. laten, Ger. lassen, Goth. letan "to leave, let"), from PIE *le(i)d- "to leave behind, leave, yield" (cf. L. lassus "faint, weary," Lith. leisti "to let, to let loose"). The primary sense appears to be "to let go through weariness, to neglect." Obsolete let (n.) "hindrance" is from O.E. lettan "hinder, delay," from P.Gmc. *latjanan, related to Mod.Eng. late. Let on "reveal, divulge" is from 1630s; let up "cease, stop" is from 1787.
    Last edited by misterman; 01-23-12 at 03:27 PM.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    They weren't arguments, they were questions. Have you designated yourself to be the arbitrator of bigotry? If so, it would be incumbent on you to explain your criteria and guide us.

    Fair enough? Or are afraid of coming off pompous and self righteous?
    Like tall "bigotry" is a word. We don't have official arbitrators of words in English. Do you think that means we shouldn't talk? Or what?

  6. #146
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    They weren't arguments, they were questions. Have you designated yourself to be the arbitrator of bigotry? If so, it would be incumbent on you to explain your criteria and guide us.
    Jeez, nobody said people can't disagree about the details. What, now nobody can oppose bigotry simply because we can have disagreements about exactly what it means?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Like tall "bigotry" is a word. We don't have official arbitrators of words in English. Do you think that means we shouldn't talk? Or what?
    Ok, so we can agree that words have meanings and are they are sometimes relative. I imagine you to be very short, so what is tall to you is probably not to me. You with me so far? Now, what is bigoted to you may not be to me. So, unless you can define what bigoted is to you, I have no way of knowing what that word means to you thus rendering your use of the word pretty much meaningless to everyone but yourself.

    "Pompous ass" is another example. I know my definition but I cannot know the definition of others.

  8. #148
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Jeez, nobody said people can't disagree about the details. What, now nobody can oppose bigotry simply because we can have disagreements about exactly what it means?
    Sure, anyone can oppose it, but it doesn't mean that one's use of the accusation of bigotry is a legitimate complaint.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  9. #149
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Pretty much.

    You insist that only one definition of the word can apply.
    No, I insist that this word in particular partakes of the sinister, pseudo-analytical attempt to diagnose one's opponents. I do not say that is always at the forefront of the minds of those using them, I say it is simply part of the milieu from which the word comes, how it is constructed and what it still means.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-23-12 at 06:20 PM.
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  10. #150
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    Re: Slander in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The bottom line is somebody can't use their personal religious beliefs to excuse bigotry because what is going on in their heads isn't relevant, it's how they act that matters. So a rationalization based on their own internal beliefs doesn't buy them anything. I don't care if they're Christian, Muslim, atheist, whatever, the same standard applies to them.
    As I said this is all question begging. Who says it is bigotry?
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-23-12 at 06:19 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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