View Poll Results: Should “equal opportunity” = free (gov funded) college to those who can complete it?

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  • Yes

    17 28.33%
  • No

    43 71.67%
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Thread: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No. I don't support public education either, but at this point it is a necessary evil.
    Wow, that's just ridiculous.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  2. #52
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    No Communications. No Liberal Arts.
    As if those don't ever lead to careers.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Should everyone have access to all types of college education and degrees regardless of their financial status and should the only factor that should be considered when allowing access to college education and degrees be their ability to complete such academic curriculum?

    Or should only those who can afford a college education or those select few who receive scholarships be allowed access to college education and thus, one’s financial status should be considered in addition to one’s ability to complete academic curriculum?

    What option did you pick or which one best reflects your beliefs and why?
    I think it'd be a good idea in general if there were greater opportunities for poor people to gain access to higher education. I do not think it's either possible or necessarily a completely good idea to entirely level the playing field in this area. Private universities will do what they want, and more power to them. The smarter ones recognize that there's some value in financing the education of exceptionally bright poor people, thus creating more opportunities for such people. Public universities, by contrast, are creatures of the state and have a much greater obligation to provide relatively equal access to the extent that such a thing is possible (more on this shortly).

    "The" issue for acceptance isn't, and shouldn't be solely anything. Ability to complete a degree is certainly relevant, but probably a lot less important than the relative merits of various applicants - not just "can they do the work?" but also "how well?" and "what else are they bringing to our educational community?"

    Re: whether or not wealth should be taken into account as an admissions practice, it depends what you mean. There aren't currently very many universities that directly and explicitly consider ability to pay when they're making their admissions decisions (the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Brown, and I'm not sure they still do this anymore). Obviously inability to pay is a complete bar to attending a university whether you've been accepted or not. However, one's relative affluence shows up in the admissions process in other, more subtle ways. In particular, well off parents can afford private SAT tutors, SAT classes, AP prep and all sorts of other goodies that give their offspring a huge competitive advantage. They can afford to send their children to language camps, and invest in sporting equipment, musical instruments, etc, all of which give their kid an edge when applying to college. This is both problematic (in some ways) and completely reasonable (in others). On the one hand, it's obviously not fair to poor kids that they have a statistically worse chance of getting good SAT scores just because they couldn't shell out $3k to pay for a tutor, and universities are getting skewed information about the relative merits of our hypothetical affluent vs poor applicant. On the other hand, it wouldn't be any more fair for parents not to be able to use every resource at their disposal to do the best they can to ensure the future well-being of their children. That's what parents are supposed to do, and it's a good thing.

    My solution, overall? Focus more attention on primary and secondary education (not necessarily more money, but certainly better spent money), institute state programs to provide free or low cost programs for enterprising low-income children to take advantage of (e.g. SAT classes, music classes, etc), and finance the hell out of the public university system to at least stop the current trend of ballooning costs (Berkeley, my alma mater, is like three times as expensive now as it was when I attended it slightly over a decade ago), and ideally to reduce the tuition burden on students.

  4. #54
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    When you say "free" you actually mean "tax-payer funded", because it costs something even if the student isn't the one paying the bill. In which case, I would base funding off of academic performance.
    Isn't that what scholarships already do?

  5. #55
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    what's wrong with being a plumber?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    So plumbers are where people end up if they aim low? Tell those working joes how you really feel....
    Are either of you plumbers? If so then yes, you aimed low in life. Sorry to be the first to break it to you. There's nothing wrong with the profession itself. However, I have higher ambitions not only for myself but also for my children. If that's how you feed yourselves, please by any means pumpkins, however don't expect me to act like it's anything more than the kind of employment people who don't aim too high in life end up with.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-19-12 at 04:04 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    As if those don't ever lead to careers.
    There is no DIRECT career path from that degree to a job opportunity. I can't say that I've ever seen a job advertisement for a LIBERAL ARTS MAJOR or COMMUNICATIONS MAJOR. Yes, there are associated career fields that one may be able to get into, but for the most part there is no DIRECT career path linked to those degrees. My parents were (rightfully so) not interested in investing wads of cash into a degree that had no DIRECT CAREER PATH assocaited with it.

    Out of that, they got....

    1. CAD Designer/Drafter
    2. Director of Christian Education/Youth Services
    3. Biology Professor/Researcher

  7. #57
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    How does "equal opportunity" = "free college"? And who's to say college may not have limited some peoples education or initiative? I've got an old friend with 15 yrs of college and he's a snob, lazy and sometimes moron.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Are either of you plumbers? If so then yes, you aimed low in life. Sorry to be the first to break it to you.
    I hope you remember that the next time you need one of them to deal with a broken pipe or something similar in your home. I'd suggest telling them all about that before they do the work.

  9. #59
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    true. The real question is tax payer funded a better way to make sure we get more educated and functioning in soceity than we're doing now.
    If the student does nothing to earn his way through collecg it is likely the education willnot have any value to him.

    If you let most people go to college you will have people disrupting the class and screwing off so how will that help the other students?

  10. #60
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I hope you remember that the next time you need one of them to deal with a broken pipe or something similar in your home. I'd suggest telling them all about that before they do the work.
    That would work well, hey pal you aimed low now fix my crapper. He'd probably use your head as a toilet brush...lol
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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