View Poll Results: Should “equal opportunity” = free (gov funded) college to those who can complete it?

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  • Yes

    17 28.33%
  • No

    43 71.67%
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Thread: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    More nonsense. People do not live in a vacuum where availability is always there if they just grasp for it. Things like generational poverty, economic conditions, education etc must be taken into consideration. Take a look at governments in Asia/Africa/Latin America where governments barely exist in the lives of citizen and what do you have? High unemployment, underdevelopment, starving children in the millions, etc. Your argument that governments should be there only to defend "the resident's right to gather food" goes against every social indicator of what it takes to have a well working society.
    I don't deny the things that you believe must be taken into consideration, I just don't believe it's the job of the government to do the considering. On a individual basis I believe we are morally obligated to compensate these considerations where we each feel it is appropriate. There are so many other factors in Asia/Africa/Latin America (including corrupt governments) that is irrelevant philosophically to the government's ideal role which is the current debate. And so I'm not going to be touching that point.

    I believe that the people obviously are choosing: "NO, society should not provide further education for the general population" given the general lack of contributions to scholarship funds. If the people wanted to provide educations, they have the opportunity everyday to make these contributions. The government makes sure we are free to make these choices. If we are not making these choices, it's obvious that we do not WANT it to be so. So why would our government force it upon us? Because we are too limited to see the big picture and the advancement of our society and how it benefits us individually? Is that the underlying argument in favor of big government?
    Last edited by fredmertz; 01-19-12 at 03:24 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    The government should pay for college when it is statistically likely to lead to a greater increase in tax revenues than the expense of the program. Since we can't judge that on a case-by-case basis, we need a rules-based policy that ensure that it applies in the majority of cases; a "close enough" rule that allows us to eat the occasional loss while still benefiting overall.

    Of course, we can't have programs like that because people would insist on "equal rights" for English and PE majors.
    So English and PE majors contribute nothing? They sure do a good job of teaching our kids how to speak and write and stay healthy.

    This is why measuring education in nothing more than monetary terms, as you want to do, is flawed. Education is more than just a way to get new workers to produce more revenue for the government.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  3. #43
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So English and PE majors contribute nothing? They sure do a good job of teaching our kids how to speak and write and stay healthy.

    This is why measuring education in nothing more than monetary terms, as you want to do, is flawed. Education is more than just a way to get new workers to produce more revenue for the government.
    You've hit on a great problem in our society. People seem to measure the value of a another person based on how much money they make. People don't seem to realize that those English majors they attack have contributed a lot to society.

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    You've hit on a great problem in our society. People seem to measure the value of a another person based on how much money they make. People don't seem to realize that those English majors they attack have contributed a lot to society.
    I measure the value of a person based on how much they have contributed to a society. A free society will on average pay that person exactly what they are worth to the society for their level of production. In a free society, measuring the value of a person by the wealth they earn is an accurate measurement.

  5. #45
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    1. We already have equal opportunity.

    2. The government has no business funding anyone's secondary education.

    3. "Free" college??? See my sig.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    You've hit on a great problem in our society. People seem to measure the value of a another person based on how much money they make. People don't seem to realize that those English majors they attack have contributed a lot to society.
    Certain ones of them may contribute a lot to society, but right now most of them are unemployed since OWS has shut down for the winter.

    My parents had informed my two brothers and myself that we would ONLY get assistance paying for college IF we selected majors that had CAREER PATHS at the end of them. No General Ed. No Communications. No Liberal Arts. Either we knew what we wanted to do, or we were going to be paying for it ourselves. Sounds like a hell of an idea to me.

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I measure the value of a person based on how much they have contributed to a society. A free society will on average pay that person exactly what they are worth to the society for their level of production. In a free society, measuring the value of a person by the wealth they earn is an accurate measurement.
    That's highly debatable, especially when you're talking about public employees.

    But what I was responding to originally was the idea that education should only be paid for for degrees that would pay it back directly in tax revenue.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I measure the value of a person based on how much they have contributed to a society. A free society will on average pay that person exactly what they are worth to the society for their level of production. In a free society, measuring the value of a person by the wealth they earn is an accurate measurement.
    That's highly debatable, especially when you're talking about public employees.

    But what I was responding to originally was the idea that education should only be paid for for degrees that would pay it back directly in tax revenue.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  9. #49
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    No. I don't support public education either, but at this point it is a necessary evil. Let's not make the same mistake with colleges. I would be for somehow making it more affordable though.
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    No. People don't appreciate what they can get for free and a college education would be no different. It would be a waste of taxpayer money with the side effect of crowding colleges with kids who don't want to be there or people who aren't serious about getting a degree.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
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