View Poll Results: Should “equal opportunity” = free (gov funded) college to those who can complete it?

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  • Yes

    17 28.33%
  • No

    43 71.67%
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Thread: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Should everyone have access to all types of college education and degrees regardless of their financial status and should the only factor that should be considered when allowing access to college education and degrees be their ability to complete such academic curriculum?

    Or should only those who can afford a college education or those select few who receive scholarships be allowed access to college education and thus, one’s financial status should be considered in addition to one’s ability to complete academic curriculum?

    What option did you pick or which one best reflects your beliefs and why?
    No thanks. I have seen how a given education can impact a person once they think they are entitled to one. Meanwhile those of us who have had to work at financing our education and take out loans can be better driven and more appreciative of the opportunity afforded to us.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The job of the government is to provide for societal need as a well working society is essential to a government's survival. What you're saying is that it's your job to defend your house, but not to make sure the people living in it have food to eat. It's nonsensical to say the least.
    That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's the government's job to defend the house and protect the resident's rights to gather food for themselves. It is not the job of the government to provide the food.

    Back to the topic: If society wants to help, they can make scholarships. If society does not create sufficient scholarships to fund all college tuitions, the reason would be that individuals in that society did not believe that the importance of equal education was worth their dollar. So why force it upon them and take away their freedom and right to property?

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    ... You must have really low hopes for your children. Most parents encourage their kids to go out there and become architects, engineers, doctors etc. You tell yours to become plumbers? Seriously?
    I have an Associate of Science Degree (AS) in Computer Aided Design and Drafting. It cost roughly $34K, of which I ended up personally paying about $2500. That same degree, from that same college would now cost closer to $75K, and would not even come close to guaranteeing the graduates a job. It is becoming increasingly obvious that a college degree no longer GUARANTEES one a stable income anymore. Especially when you factor in the expense of the degree itself. These "service" industry jobs pay well (most are Unionized), and are only going to INCREASE in demand as people who grew up in my generation and younger who don't know the difference between a wrench and a pair of pliers need their homes, cars, etc... worked on.

  4. #34
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's the government's job to defend the house and protect the resident's rights to gather food for themselves. It is not the job of the government to provide the food.
    More nonsense. People do not live in a vacuum where availability is always there if they just grasp for it. Things like generational poverty, economic conditions, education etc must be taken into consideration. Take a look at governments in Asia/Africa/Latin America where governments barely exist in the lives of citizen and what do you have? High unemployment, underdevelopment, starving children in the millions, etc. Your argument that governments should be there only to defend "the resident's right to gather food" goes against every social indicator of what it takes to have a well working society.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I have an Associate of Science Degree (AS) in Computer Aided Design and Drafting. It cost roughly $34K, of which I ended up personally paying about $2500. That same degree, from that same college would now cost closer to $75K, and would not even come close to guaranteeing the graduates a job. It is becoming increasingly obvious that a college degree no longer GUARANTEES one a stable income anymore. Especially when you factor in the expense of the degree itself. These "service" industry jobs pay well (most are Unionized), and are only going to INCREASE in demand as people who grew up in my generation and younger who don't know the difference between a wrench and a pair of pliers need their homes, cars, etc... worked on.
    That's not what I asked you about. I asked you why it was you didn't ask your children to aim higher than plumbers. It's not as if doctors and engineers will become obsolete within the next 40 years.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Our public school system k-12 needs to be fixed first. Big dreams of university changes are meaningless when our elem/middle/high schools graduate so few, and with such statistically poor chances of succeeding at the university level.

    I'll say that improvements in K-12 take care of *much* of the perceived issue with universities, tuition, etc. that you may be raising. We already pay for them, we just need to get out of them what we put into them by reforming and busting government and union blockades to a working system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That's not what I asked you about. I asked you why it was you didn't ask your children to aim higher than plumbers. It's not as if doctors and engineers will become obsolete within the next 40 years.
    So plumbers are where people end up if they aim low? Tell those working joes how you really feel....

    Besides, isn't what parents guide their childrens towards a personal decision, and not your business? Do you want liberals to dictate the goals of parent? What if they tell them " do what makes you happy", and what makes them happy you consider "setting your sights too low"?
    Last edited by Mach; 01-19-12 at 02:53 PM.

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That's not what I asked you about. I asked you why it was you didn't ask your children to aim higher than plumbers. It's not as if doctors and engineers will become obsolete within the next 40 years.
    what's wrong with being a plumber?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  8. #38
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That's not what I asked you about. I asked you why it was you didn't ask your children to aim higher than plumbers. It's not as if doctors and engineers will become obsolete within the next 40 years.
    The cost of those educations is prohibitave compared to the amount of opportunities readily available right out of school. Most of the engineers I work with came out of college with $100K+ in debt and got jobs paying less than $60K a year. That doesn't make for a real great financial future right off the bat.

  9. #39
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Society benefits from an educated population. It follows that the best societies have the best-educated peoples. Everyone should have the opportunity to extend their education as far as they are able. A society must invest in its members.
    Don't work out, work in.

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  10. #40
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    I hate when the term free is used in anything when applied to situations like these. You name it health care, education, housing. It will be paid for by me, you, and the tax payers period.
    "Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they’ll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they’ll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it’s the sand of the coliseum. He’ll bring them death – and they will love him for it.” - Senator Gracchus (Gladiator)

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