View Poll Results: Should “equal opportunity” = free (gov funded) college to those who can complete it?

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  • Yes

    17 28.33%
  • No

    43 71.67%
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Thread: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I measure the value of a person based on how much they have contributed to a society. A free society will on average pay that person exactly what they are worth to the society for their level of production. In a free society, measuring the value of a person by the wealth they earn is an accurate measurement.
    I don't. A janitor or trash collector working his rear off for 40 hours a week contributes just as much to our society as a brainsurgion. The difference in pay represents not a difference in actual contribution, but a difference in scarcity of a particular skillset. Now I am not arguing that everyone should make the same - people of scarcer skillsets should get paid more than people with more common skills (assuming that there is sufficent demand for the scarcer skillsets). But pay does not equate to a humans value value in society.

    Now lets say that being a brain surgion was the highest paying skill in the world, and suddenly every bright young person decided that he/she went to med school and specialized in brain surgery. Well not just everyone needs a brain surgion every day, so the pay rates for brain surgions would become very low. The brain surgery qualification may become less neccesary in our society that some skill at mopping floors. So would that mean that brain surgions somehow stopped contributing to society as much as they used to? Of course not. Compensation simply has little to do with human value.

  2. #102
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    My parents had informed my two brothers and myself that we would ONLY get assistance paying for college IF we selected majors that had CAREER PATHS at the end of them. No General Ed. No Communications. No Liberal Arts. Either we knew what we wanted to do, or we were going to be paying for it ourselves. Sounds like a hell of an idea to me.
    There are most definately career paths for people with communications and liberal arts degrees. If a student isn't technically minded, it would be a waste to go into a technical field. Communicatons or some other liberal arts would be much more valuable.

  3. #103
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So there's plenty of money and it's just that people are lazy? It's that again?
    No, it's that some people are willing to do what it takes, and others aren't. When I went to school, I was young, married, and had two children. I went to a community college for as long as I could to save money. I was poor by today's standards, but somehow I managed to do what I really wanted to do. Attitude will get you far if it's a good and positive one, or it will keep you in poverty if you let it.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  4. #104
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    If a capable child/young person who has the capabilities to make a college degree is kept from doing so, because of his/her financial situation, that would not just be unworthy of a humane society and degrading for the individual, but also a massive waste of resources for society as a whole. Imagine if an Einstein had ended as burger cook, just because his family could not afford college -- and even if it's just a decent engineer among many, that's bad enough. I don't think we (in the West) can afford to waste this intellectual potential.
    But that's not the case here. A capable young person who works and achieves scholastic excellence (or even in sports) can get a free education.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  5. #105
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    No, it's that some people are willing to do what it takes, and others aren't.
    How is that different?

    When I went to school, I was young, married, and had two children. I went to a community college for as long as I could to save money. I was poor by today's standards, but somehow I managed to do what I really wanted to do. Attitude will get you far if it's a good and positive one, or it will keep you in poverty if you let it.
    So you were too lazy to go get a degree at a real college, and a master's and doctorate?

    See how that works?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  6. #106
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    But that's not the case here. A capable young person who works and achieves scholastic excellence (or even in sports) can get a free education.
    That's overstating the case a great deal, but yeah, we have scholarships and student aid.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    If it were an unneeded profession, it wouldn't be a profession.

    You talk as if it's easy to predict the job market, or what others will do. But if everyone is expected to get trained in the most in-demand professions, lots will cluster to them, and then there will be too many candidates for too few jobs, and vice versa. So your idea is self-defeating. And then there's external forces that change the job market, and your own skills and opportunities.
    Still standing is the point that it makes no sense to have redistributive government programs "incentivizing" something where natural incentive already exists.

  8. #108
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    How is that different?



    So you were too lazy to go get a degree at a real college, and a master's and doctorate?

    See how that works?
    Did I say the bolded? No I didn't. I said I went to a community college for as long as I could, which means, for those who seem intent on just being snide, that I took as many hours as I could at lower cost, then went to a state university to do the rest. It's really not that difficult to understand, and there's really no need for you to be an asshole about it.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  9. #109
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    There is no DIRECT career path from that degree to a job opportunity. I can't say that I've ever seen a job advertisement for a LIBERAL ARTS MAJOR or COMMUNICATIONS MAJOR. Yes, there are associated career fields that one may be able to get into, but for the most part there is no DIRECT career path linked to those degrees. My parents were (rightfully so) not interested in investing wads of cash into a degree that had no DIRECT CAREER PATH assocaited with it.
    I've never seen an advertisment for a CEO or a congressman or a news anchor, or a music composer, but that doesn't mean we those types of jobs don't exist. Typically graduates with specific interests will actively apply at the type of organazations that hire such people, and thus there is no need for public advertising.

    Out of that, they got....

    1. CAD Designer/Drafter
    2. Director of Christian Education/Youth Services
    3. Biology Professor/Researcher
    Then you have to admit that they were being silly. Of course there are more than three different jobs where college is helpful.

  10. #110
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Are either of you plumbers? If so then yes, you aimed low in life. Sorry to be the first to break it to you. There's nothing wrong with the profession itself. However, I have higher ambitions not only for myself but also for my children. If that's how you feed yourselves, please by any means pumpkins, however don't expect me to act like it's anything more than the kind of employment people who don't aim too high in life end up with.
    Just the other day there was this guy wearing a work shirt that said "Joes Plumbing" on it standing just in front of me in line at Walmart. So the guy ahead of him turns around and said that he though he had a leaky pipe in his basement and asked how much it would cost to get it fixed. Joe the plumber (he he excuse the pun) said that it would depend on how long it took and further explained that he charged $60 for a house call plus $125/hr. The guy with the leaky pipe said "wow, thats more than my doctor charges", Joe responded "yep, thats why I stopped being a doctor and got into something more profitable".

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