View Poll Results: Should “equal opportunity” = free (gov funded) college to those who can complete it?

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  • Yes

    17 28.33%
  • No

    43 71.67%
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Thread: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    I also believe that additional funding should be available to train students in professions that are needed so that students would have a financial motive to train in needed professions.
    They already have a financial incentive to be trained in needed professions. That natural incentive is what I like to call "being gainfully employed." Getting trained in an unneeded profession is more likely to lead to unemployment. There's only financial incentive in that if the liberals get their way and make unemployment benefits endless.

    It is mind-boggling to me that more than a third of an almost-statistically-relevant number of respondents answered "yes" to this question.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 01-20-12 at 12:29 AM.

  2. #92
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    The more I hear from professors and those they have educated, the less value I place in a liberal arts education. The only differences I see between those with advanced degrees, and those who didn't complete high school, is how well-spoken they are and what they do for a living.

    For the product they turn out, universities should be investigated for price gouging.

    EDIT: So yes. If the idea is to indoctrinate statist goals, those who accept it should not have to pay.
    Last edited by LuckyDan; 01-20-12 at 12:24 AM.

  3. #93
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    I like the British and Australian systems where you have to pay on loan, but it is a loan with very lenient conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    "Free" college doesn't create equal opportunity. Education deficits exist long before students reach college age, first of all. Secondly, as long as we have majors with little guarantee of broad-ranging success (i.e. women's studies, dance) we shouldn't be requiring tax payers to subsidize the whims of any college-age person in this country.
    As a proud humanities graduate, and just using your post of one of several, may I object to the idea that humanities and similar degrees are not 'broad-ranging'. Now today many are taught poorly, but I feel that you probably get a broader education if you read (in the British university sense of taking a course; I don't mean private reading) Classics or History than you do if you study engineering or even natural sciences. The former aim, or should do, to give you a broad grounding in human existence and hopefully in wisdom, the latter do not, they teach you only specialised and technical knowledge.

    Of course this is not how it usually is today, as I'm well aware.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-20-12 at 12:52 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #94
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    I didn't vote in the poll because neither answer expresses my view. I think college should be affordable, but not free. I think students in countries where it's 100 percent provided by the government tend to take it for granted. When you're paying for your education, you'll take it seriously and apply yourself. That said, I don't think a person should have to go 200K or more into debt in order to get a university education. I'm glad there are public universities, and I think it's extremely important to keep their tuitions affordable.

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    The government shouldn't be paying for anything. Those with the appropriate GPA should be allowed to get loans so that they can pay off their loans after they graduate and have a three month grace period to start their career.

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    My point is that making college "free" won't make that much difference overall. Those who want a good education will pursue that, and there are many options available. Pell grants, scholarships, student loans, community colleges, vocational schools. The opportunity is there- the motivation is lacking.
    So there's plenty of money and it's just that people are lazy? It's that again?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    They already have a financial incentive to be trained in needed professions. That natural incentive is what I like to call "being gainfully employed." Getting trained in an unneeded profession is more likely to lead to unemployment.
    If it were an unneeded profession, it wouldn't be a profession.

    You talk as if it's easy to predict the job market, or what others will do. But if everyone is expected to get trained in the most in-demand professions, lots will cluster to them, and then there will be too many candidates for too few jobs, and vice versa. So your idea is self-defeating. And then there's external forces that change the job market, and your own skills and opportunities.
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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    If a capable child/young person who has the capabilities to make a college degree is kept from doing so, because of his/her financial situation, that would not just be unworthy of a humane society and degrading for the individual, but also a massive waste of resources for society as a whole. Imagine if an Einstein had ended as burger cook, just because his family could not afford college -- and even if it's just a decent engineer among many, that's bad enough. I don't think we (in the West) can afford to waste this intellectual potential.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick
    I didn't vote in the poll because neither answer expresses my view. I think college should be affordable, but not free.
    Actually, college is affordable. First of all, you won't be spending a six figure amount on an undergraduate unless a) you get absolutely no grant/scholarship money (a rare instance, given the correlation between income and intelligence), or b) go to a private/Ivy-league caliber institution. I got a Pell grant through four years. My first two years at community college, it covered tuition and then some. In essence, it was basically gub-mint paying me to go to college. For my undergrads at Michigan, it paid a very significant portion of my tuition. Couple that with the overall lifelong expected incomes of college grads vs. those with just a high school education, and it's not that bad.

    Furthermore, college shouldn't be free because it devalues the scarcity value of a degree. We don't need a more "enlightened" society because college would not teach them anything they really wouldn't be taught in high school. A senior in high school is more than capable of running a cash register or basic memorization of remedial items in a retail store. When someone can show me that the local pump jack at the gas station can gain advantage over the ability to quote Nietzche, I'll argue the overall value of "free" education.

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    Re: Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Actually, college is affordable. First of all, you won't be spending a six figure amount on an undergraduate unless a) you get absolutely no grant/scholarship money (a rare instance, given the correlation between income and intelligence), or b) go to a private/Ivy-league caliber institution. I got a Pell grant through four years. My first two years at community college, it covered tuition and then some. In essence, it was basically gub-mint paying me to go to college. For my undergrads at Michigan, it paid a very significant portion of my tuition. Couple that with the overall lifelong expected incomes of college grads vs. those with just a high school education, and it's not that bad..
    Well, yeah, bolded part.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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