View Poll Results: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

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  • 0-5 Years

    24 43.64%
  • 5-10 Years

    14 25.45%
  • 10-15 Years

    3 5.45%
  • 15-20 Years

    4 7.27%
  • 20-25 Years

    0 0%
  • 25+ Years

    2 3.64%
  • Never

    8 14.55%
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Thread: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

  1. #141
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I did not select any of those things any more than I chose to be born with a full facial birthmark. Those things are determined beyond our control by two forces.... Genetics and The Fates. Some of them are designed to assist us and others are designed as tests for us to overcome in the course of our life.
    You're not doing a very good job of overcoming. You're wallowing in self-pity and alienating those around you, that's about it.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  2. #142
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Same-sex couples can have children. They can do it through artificial insemination or adoption. Surely you agree that orphans should have parents, and that raising a child is just as important to the propagation of the species as giving birth to them?

    On the other hand, many straight couples cannot have children, and this is known before they get married. Post-menopausal women get married all the time.

    So your premise is crap.
    Same-sex couples cannot have children through natural means. There is almost always a potential for a child-bearing aged heterosexual couple to get pregnant. Older couples of either group are a different issue alltogether. In our current system my experience is that there isn't much difference between kids being raised by the State and/or by their parents. I would agree that it's important that children are properly raised. I don't see most heterosexual couples doing that these days, nevermind the inherent inability for a same-sex couple to do so.


    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You're not doing a very good job of overcoming. You're wallowing in self-pity and alienating those around you, that's about it.
    I never said that everyone passes the tests that are presented to them, now did I?

  3. #143
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Same-sex couples cannot have children through natural means.
    Sure they can.

    Oh, wait, you mean with their own sperm?

    So if a HETERO couple uses donated sperm because he's infertile, is that wrong? Is the child not real?

    There is almost always a potential for a child-bearing aged heterosexual couple to get pregnant. Older couples of either group are a different issue alltogether. In our current system my experience is that there isn't much difference between kids being raised by the State and/or by their parents.
    Is it wrong for infertile couples to get married? Yes or no?

    I would agree that it's important that children are properly raised.
    Then stop trying to impede it.

    I never said that everyone passes the tests that are presented to them, now did I?
    I don't care.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  4. #144
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    As the EPC is worded currently I don't think there is a legal basis for saying it includes homosexual orientation. In legal terms I don't think the federal government should have the right to pass a federal law that forces states to go against their constitutions and issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples. If the federal government was the one issuing marriage licenses then this would be fine.

    In order to stay within the bounds of the Constitution and not trample on the rights of the states I think the best way to legalize gay marriage would be to do so formally by amending the Constitution. You don't need the support of all the states to do so and I think it is the best approach under the current laws and how things are legally.
    Here's the thing though, the SCOTUS did exactly what you are saying you don't want done regarding marriage before, and very few people now would ever say they were wrong (there are a few who would).

    Loving v. VA, SCOTUS did not just tell states that they simply had to stop prosecuting interracial couples who were living together as married. They forced states, even those with anti-interracial marriage laws written into their constitutions (AL's wasn't rewritten til 2002 or 2003), to allow interracial couples to get married.

    This issue was not based on the sexual preferences of the people involved, but rather the race of those people and how the race of those two people wishing to enter into a marriage contract affect how that marriage contract works. Since the race of the two involved has no effect on how the contract operates, then race cannot be a factor in determining who a person can marry.

    Now, relate that to same sex marriage.

    The issue now would not be the sexual preferences of the people involved, but rather the sex of those people and how the sex of those two people wishing to enter into a marriage contract affects how that marriage contract works. Since the sex of the two involved has no effect on how the contract operates, then sex cannot be a factor in determining who a person can marry.

    Easily transferable concept from striking down anti-interracial marriage laws and constitutional amendments to striking down anti-same sex marriage laws and constitutional amendments.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #145
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It would be in the hands of the state to determine who they would marry. However, the states would have to treat as married people married in other states just as most marriages are now. So a gay couple could get married in NY, go back to Bum**** Arkansas and still be married. States cannot nullify contracts from other states.
    I wish this were completely true.

    States do not always have to recognize marriage contracts from other states. For example, if those contracts violate some laws of the state, such as age of consent laws or incest laws.

    This is why I think it will take at least one more court battle after what you have described (which I view as a very likely prediction on what will happen) in order for states to be basically told outright that they have to recognize same sex marriages, even if they have laws or constitutional amendments against such marriages.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #146
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sure they can. Oh, wait, you mean with their own sperm?
    Yes, I mean with their own sperm/eggs.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So if a HETERO couple uses donated sperm because he's infertile, is that wrong? Is the child not real?
    The child is real. That doesn't mean the child should be born.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Is it wrong for infertile couples to get married? Yes or no?
    So long as they are a heterosexual couple, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Then stop trying to impede it.
    Being raised properly and being raised by a same-sex couple are not compatible ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I don't care.
    That's one thing we do agree on. Neither one of us gives a **** about the other one.

  7. #147
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I wish this were completely true.

    States do not always have to recognize marriage contracts from other states. For example, if those contracts violate some laws of the state, such as age of consent laws or incest laws.
    Are you sure?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  8. #148
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Yes, I mean with their own sperm/eggs.
    So if a couple is infertile and uses donor sperm, or adopts, that's wrong too?

    The child is real. That doesn't mean the child should be born.
    But you said it's about children.

    So long as they are a heterosexual couple, no.
    But you based that on having children. So you're full of crap on that. You have no rational reason for forbidding gay marriage over child-bearing if you don't also do it for hetero couples.

    Being raised properly and being raised by a same-sex couple are not compatible ideas.
    Sure they are. There are plenty of normal, healthy kids raised by gays, and plenty of completely ****ed up kids raised by straights too.

    That's one thing we do agree on. Neither one of us gives a **** about the other one.
    But see, I accept that people are different and can live their own lives. You don't. That's your problem, and it's only going to lead to even more frustration in your life, because nobody's going to actually listen to you.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  9. #149
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Regardless of what I think, it will probably be 5-10 years. It has passed the stage of tollerance, and now is in the stage of acceptance. Homosexuality in general is starting to reach into some of the opponents and a lot of churches are coming around to homosexuals as individuals.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  10. #150
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    Re: Same-Sex Marriage, How long till it's legal

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Are you sure?
    Pretty sure. At least for the cousins marriage.

    Cousin marriage law in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The underage one seems to only open the older person up to statutory rape laws, in states that make no exception for marriage in such laws. I can't find anything saying it actually nullifies the marriage.

    Another example though is transgender marriages. The federal government recognizes these marriages as far as the state recognizes the legal sexes of the couple as being opposite. They haven't, in fact, given any information on how changing a person's sex which makes a couple now same sex and married in a state that outlaws same sex marriage but recognizes sex changes as being a person's legal sex would affect those marriages legally. After all, now we would have legal same sex marriages even in states that have constitutional amendments or laws against them. And this is happening now, without any change to DOMA.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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