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what are your "Federal government butt out" issues?

Luna Tick

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I won't post it as a voting poll, but just list the issues that you would rather seen handled by state governments than the Federal government. Here are mine:

  • marijuana (for medicinal or recreational use)
  • the sale of sexual services (often derisively known as prostitution)
  • marriage, especially gay marriage
 
I'd rather list the areas where the federal government should have a role (in random order).

1. Education
2. Public health, safety, defense (including healthcare, anti-terrorism and environmental law)
3. Foreign affairs (military and diplomacy)
4. Civil Rights
5. Interstate economics

The state can legislate on top of all these areas. Everything else can be handled solely by the states.
 
I'd like most things to be under state control with a general Constitutional framework of what is legal and not. I think most of our welfare state should be state run and issued. I think Federal control over a lot of things is too complex and difficult to be undertaken with any kind of success. Seems easier to have 50 individuals work on the details than one big dumb guy, no?
 
I don't care about States' rights. There is right and there is wrong. If the government does wrong or seeks to prevent me from doing right, it doesn't matter which government it is.

All three of the issues in the OP are things I think the government must be involved in.
 
I won't post it as a voting poll, but just list the issues that you would rather seen handled by state governments than the Federal government. Here are mine:

  • marijuana (for medicinal or recreational use)
  • the sale of sexual services (often derisively known as prostitution)
  • marriage, especially gay marriage

What I think should be handled by the states:
-Health & safety
-Law enforcement
-Education
-Welfare

What I think should be handled by the federal government:
-Military
-Commerce between the states & with foreign countries
-Post offices & interstate highways
 
the sale of sexual services (often derisively known as prostitution)

That is one I think I've changed my mind on recently. I agree, in theory, with the idea that if somebody wants to sell sex that isn't the government's business. But we had a speaker at my law school last year that had worked for a women's shelter for 35 years, largely doing outreach to prostitutes that gave a pretty compelling counter argument. Her take is that prostitution is largely slavery. Not in some hippie dippie sense of treating women's bodies like property, but literal slavery. The vast majority of prostitutes started before they reached 15. The ran away from home and a predatory pimp found them, maybe they were even kidnapped or shipped here from another country where their family was threatened if they didn't comply. The pimp systematically gained control over them through violence, drugs, threats and manipulation to the point where they at least believe that they really have no choice.

So, the obvious response is that statutory rape and slavery are illegal, so we could just prosecute them for that without having to make prostitution illegal. But practically speaking that doesn't really work. A woman who is, for example, severely addicted to heroin and whose only source is her pimp, whose pimp has her kids while she's out, and whose pimp regularly beats her and her kids just is not realistically going to go to the police to report it and even if somebody else reports it, she isn't going to testify in court against him. Or, with statutory rape, it is much harder to prove. Police can't solicit statutory rape because the john is the perpetrator. Neither the john nor the victim are ever going to report it. Even if somebody does report it, that just allows the police to go after the john, it doesn't empower them to do anything to help the girl out of her situation. So, from a practical point of view, the only real way to fight it is to make the whole profession illegal.

I'm not 100% convinced, but that definitely gave me a lot to think about on the topic.
 
The Middle East and Gulf Region
Religion
States rights
Home Land Security
business, oil, and farm subsidies
the regulation of media

and what Luna said
 
I'd rather list the areas where the federal government should have a role (in random order).

1. Education
2. Public health, safety, defense (including healthcare, anti-terrorism and environmental law)
3. Foreign affairs (military and diplomacy)
4. Civil Rights
5. Interstate economics

The state can legislate on top of all these areas. Everything else can be handled solely by the states.
Pretty much everything on the list is authorized by the Constitution.

You'd need an Amendment to do Education though.... despite what we seem to have allowed for the last several decades with "The Department of Education"
 
That is one I think I've changed my mind on recently. I agree, in theory, with the idea that if somebody wants to sell sex that isn't the government's business. But we had a speaker at my law school last year that had worked for a women's shelter for 35 years, largely doing outreach to prostitutes that gave a pretty compelling counter argument. Her take is that prostitution is largely slavery. Not in some hippie dippie sense of treating women's bodies like property, but literal slavery. The vast majority of prostitutes started before they reached 15. The ran away from home and a predatory pimp found them, maybe they were even kidnapped or shipped here from another country where their family was threatened if they didn't comply. The pimp systematically gained control over them through violence, drugs, threats and manipulation to the point where they at least believe that they really have no choice.

So, the obvious response is that statutory rape and slavery are illegal, so we could just prosecute them for that without having to make prostitution illegal. But practically speaking that doesn't really work. A woman who is, for example, severely addicted to heroin and whose only source is her pimp, whose pimp has her kids while she's out, and whose pimp regularly beats her and her kids just is not realistically going to go to the police to report it and even if somebody else reports it, she isn't going to testify in court against him. Or, with statutory rape, it is much harder to prove. Police can't solicit statutory rape because the john is the perpetrator. Neither the john nor the victim are ever going to report it. Even if somebody does report it, that just allows the police to go after the john, it doesn't empower them to do anything to help the girl out of her situation. So, from a practical point of view, the only real way to fight it is to make the whole profession illegal.

I'm not 100% convinced, but that definitely gave me a lot to think about on the topic.

I'm completely against sexual slavery too. However, what you describe is really the result of illegal prostitution. It doesn't describe the legal brothels in Nevada. When it's legal and regulated, we avoid almost all the problems that happen with illegal prostitution. In the legal brothels, you don't have sex workers beholden to a pimp and forced to work. It's a case as in any other profession where a worker can choose to work or to quit and do something else. It's a case of consenting adults choosing to have sex. The only difference is it's done as a paid service. Even if you did find a pimp tyrant at a particular legal venue, it's one that should be shut down for not adhering to the regulations. I salute your desire to keep women safe. However, legalization is one way to accomplish that.
 
I'm completely against sexual slavery too. However, what you describe is really the result of illegal prostitution. It doesn't describe the legal brothels in Nevada. When it's legal and regulated, we avoid almost all the problems that happen with illegal prostitution. In the legal brothels, you don't have sex workers beholden to a pimp and forced to work.

Hmm that may be true. But I'm not so sure. Even in strip clubs, a large percentage of the women are actually there working off some kind of debt that they have been told they owe to an organization that brought them over. Often times those arrangements are backed up by threats to their families back home. I would bet the same is true of legal brothels. And drugs still likely play a role. I don't know. That's a good argument, but in my opinion, it would require some serious empirical research to see whether legal brothels really solve those issues or not.
 
Hmm that may be true. But I'm not so sure. Even in strip clubs, a large percentage of the women are actually there working off some kind of debt that they have been told they owe to an organization that brought them over. Often times those arrangements are backed up by threats to their families back home. I would bet the same is true of legal brothels. And drugs still likely play a role. I don't know. That's a good argument, but in my opinion, it would require some serious empirical research to see whether legal brothels really solve those issues or not.

I'd be fine with some empirical research being done. The comparison with strip clubs is an interesting one. I've know strippers who get stuck in the life, taking stacks of 1 dollar bills into 7-11 at the end of their shifts and wasting them on lottery tickets. I've also known strippers who pay their way through college or build up the funds to start a business. That's why even if it's possible for some ugly things to happen in the stripping industry, I'm for it remaining legal. And that's why I'm for prostitution being legal. It can be done in a safe way that benefits all involved, and that's much more likely to happen if the government is able to regulate it.
 
What don't you think the government should be involved in?

Hmm. Nothing? Some laws that the government could pass would be absolutely immoral, but I don't believe the government's authority to pass moral laws should be limited.
 
…but just list the issues that you would rather seen handled by state governments than the Federal government.

Nearly everything that the Constitution does not explicitly name as falling under the jurisdiction of the federal government. I believe that the Tenth Amendment ought to be very strictly obeyed.

If I thought hard enough, I'm sure I could come up with a few ares in which the federal government has claimed power, that it isn't explicitly delegated in the Constitution, and which I would agree that it ought to have. In those very few cases, the Constitution ought to be Amended in order to delegate those powers to the federal government.
 
I'd rather list the areas where the federal government should have a role (in random order).

1. Education
2. Public health, safety, defense (including healthcare, anti-terrorism and environmental law)
3. Foreign affairs (military and diplomacy)
4. Civil Rights
5. Interstate economics

The state can legislate on top of all these areas. Everything else can be handled solely by the states.

I agree with these except in education. I think the Fed ought to butt out of education for the most part.

In fact, other than 2-5, I'd like to see the Fed butt out of everything else I can think of. If the federal government can do it, why can't a state do it?

I think it's important to note, though, that in the "Civil Rights" category, at a Federal level most laws ought to be restrictive in nature instead of permissive. Meaning, the Federal Government should be able to set a minimum standard for how people are treated, but not necessarily mandate what States would have to allow.
 
  • the sale of sexual services (often derisively known as prostitution)

Just to let you know, the federal government hasn't criminalized prostitution. Prostitution laws are regulated by the states. This is why Nevada has legal prostitution in some areas. I believe that Nevada further decentralized prostitution laws to the county level.

Also, prostitution in Rhode Island was legal until 2009, when the state legislature criminalized it. Previously, RI had criminalized many things relating to prostitution - brothels, solicitation, and the like - but not prostitution itself.

So the federal has, indeed, butted out of the sale of sexual services, but the state and local governments have not.

However, there is no federal protection to the freedom of sexual services, which is why state and local governments can regulate or criminalize it.

Likewise, there is no constitutional protection to the freedom of sexual services, so the federal government could, if they wanted to, criminalize prostitution nationwide as per the Commerce Clause if they chose to. They just haven't yet.
 
Just to let you know, the federal government hasn't criminalized prostitution. Prostitution laws are regulated by the states. This is why Nevada has legal prostitution in some areas. I believe that Nevada further decentralized prostitution laws to the county level.

Also, prostitution in Rhode Island was legal until 2009, when the state legislature criminalized it. Previously, RI had criminalized many things relating to prostitution - brothels, solicitation, and the like - but not prostitution itself.

So the federal has, indeed, butted out of the sale of sexual services, but the state and local governments have not.

However, there is no federal protection to the freedom of sexual services, which is why state and local governments can regulate or criminalize it.

Likewise, there is no constitutional protection to the freedom of sexual services, so the federal government could, if they wanted to, criminalize prostitution nationwide as per the Commerce Clause if they chose to. They just haven't yet.

I'm glad they haven't criminalized prostitution. What they have done is to criminalize sexual tourism, which is going to another country for the purpose of participating in prostitution. IMO they've overreached their authority. What happens in another country falls under the jurisdiction of that country, not of the Federal government.
 
That is one I think I've changed my mind on recently. I agree, in theory, with the idea that if somebody wants to sell sex that isn't the government's business. But we had a speaker at my law school last year that had worked for a women's shelter for 35 years, largely doing outreach to prostitutes that gave a pretty compelling counter argument. Her take is that prostitution is largely slavery. Not in some hippie dippie sense of treating women's bodies like property, but literal slavery. The vast majority of prostitutes started before they reached 15. The ran away from home and a predatory pimp found them, maybe they were even kidnapped or shipped here from another country where their family was threatened if they didn't comply. The pimp systematically gained control over them through violence, drugs, threats and manipulation to the point where they at least believe that they really have no choice.

So, the obvious response is that statutory rape and slavery are illegal, so we could just prosecute them for that without having to make prostitution illegal. But practically speaking that doesn't really work. A woman who is, for example, severely addicted to heroin and whose only source is her pimp, whose pimp has her kids while she's out, and whose pimp regularly beats her and her kids just is not realistically going to go to the police to report it and even if somebody else reports it, she isn't going to testify in court against him. Or, with statutory rape, it is much harder to prove. Police can't solicit statutory rape because the john is the perpetrator. Neither the john nor the victim are ever going to report it. Even if somebody does report it, that just allows the police to go after the john, it doesn't empower them to do anything to help the girl out of her situation. So, from a practical point of view, the only real way to fight it is to make the whole profession illegal.

I'm not 100% convinced, but that definitely gave me a lot to think about on the topic.
The main thing is to do what is effective, what makes for a better society. The old fashioned laws be damned !
We have had several hundred years to study this...as have the Asian and European nations.
What say they ??
Myself, I do not think many of the states are up to this human responsibility..
and I do not think the women should be bothered and persecuted, but the pimps should all rot in jail...
 
Religion.
Guns.
How I raise my child.
What I do on my own private property, as long as it harm none.
 
I won't post it as a voting poll, but just list the issues that you would rather seen handled by state governments than the Federal government. Here are mine:

  • marijuana (for medicinal or recreational use)
  • the sale of sexual services (often derisively known as prostitution)
  • marriage, especially gay marriage
Marijuana should be legal, controlled and taxed, the same with alcohol.
This should be a state level only.
Prostitution , similar
Marriage...all governments must stay out of this...so-called "gay" marriage should be ignored.
 
I won't post it as a voting poll, but just list the issues that you would rather seen handled by state governments than the Federal government. Here are mine:

  • marijuana (for medicinal or recreational use)
  • the sale of sexual services (often derisively known as prostitution)
  • marriage, especially gay marriage
I think it would be easier for me to post some issues I think the state should not be able to decide on.

Those issues are-(no I am not going to debate any of these issues.If me thinking that only traditional marriage should be legal offends you then too bad)

Gay marriage should be illegal period.

Marijuana should be legal for medicinal and recreational use,including being able to grow it for personal use or even as much as you want.The same rules that apply to alcohol and cigarettes should apply to marijuana.

Prostitution should be legal.If a prostitute is not self employed,meaning she works for a cat house/brothel then there should be laws in place ensuring that she keeps most of the money she makes from selling her services.There should be mandatory weekly or bi-weekly std screenings that the prostitute pays for out of her own pocket unless she works for a business such as a cat house/brothel.There should also be reasonable limits on where she is allowed to sell her services or where a cat house/brothel is allowed to operate.

States should not be allowed to decided on the 2nd amendment since state have proven that many of them only seek to infringe on the constitution which is the supreme law of the land.You should not need a permit/license,register your weapon or go through a waiting period,pay annual taxes, pay excessive sales taxes(taxes higher than the average sales tax for bread,food or books)or submit to a back ground check just to exercise your second amendment rights.The second amendment says shall not infringe at the end of it ,which applies to both of the rights listed in the 2nd amendment.Which is for a regulated militia and for the people the right to keep and bear arms.

Abortion should be illegal on the federal level unless its to save the life of the mother and more than one doctor who is not pro-abortion says that carrying a baby to 50% viable term either through vaginal or c-section birth will result in the loss of the mother's life.
 
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I'm glad they haven't criminalized prostitution. What they have done is to criminalize sexual tourism, which is going to another country for the purpose of participating in prostitution. IMO they've overreached their authority. What happens in another country falls under the jurisdiction of that country, not of the Federal government.

Except those countries where people go for sexual tourism are in countries in which child prostitution takes place.

Criminalizing sexual tourism is an attempt to prevent international child prostitution, international sex trafficking, and international human trafficking. So I have no problem with them doing that.
 
Except those countries where people go for sexual tourism are in countries in which child prostitution takes place.

Criminalizing sexual tourism is an attempt to prevent international child prostitution, international sex trafficking, and international human trafficking. So I have no problem with them doing that.

I completely despise anyone who goes to another country in order to sleep with a child. However, I think prosecuting someone for what he or she does in another country reaches outside the government's jurisdiction. In other words, the sexual tourism laws are illegal themselves. The Federal Government's jurisdiction applies to anything that happens within our borders or territories or on our Naval ships at sea or military bases abroad or embassies abroad. Period. What happens on other sovereign soil is the responsibility of that country. The way to legally stop these criminals is for those countries to pass good laws and enforce them.

The sexual tourism laws try to end-around the jurisdiction problem by claiming they're prosecuting someone for intending to do sexual tourism and that the intention happens on US soil. That makes it a thought crime. By that logic, someone could be intending to go to Thailand to sleep with a 10 year-old prostitute, but change his mind when he gets there and still be guilty of the crime. He's guilty of about thinking of illicit sex. Any competent defense attorney ought to be able to shoot gaping holes in these laws.

I would have no problem with some type of agreement with other countries to prosecute these perverts under their law. If some other country doesn't have the prison space, the offender could be apprehended in Tailand (or wherever), tried there, and then extradited to the United States to serve his sentence.
 
The Butt Out list is endless. Here are some of the major ones:

Health care
Welfare
Foreign aid
Education
Energy
Economic development
Housing
Food
Family and personal choices
Prohibition (any kind)
Firearm restrictions
Etc., etc.....

The purpose of government is to protect people from the wrongdoings of other people, defend our country from foreign agressors, and keep the roads in good shape. That's about it.
 
Pretty much nothing. There are reasons why government involvement can be beneficial in pretty much everything. There are plenty of things that I don't think the government should do, or be allowed to do, but I wouldn't say that there are areas where the government has no place. The government is involved in any kind of commerce, because of taxes, safety standards, environmental standards, transportation standards, prosecution of fraud, etc. The government is involved in our sexual activities to prosecute rape and abuse of children. The government is involved in marriage for purposes of managing inheritance, taxation, medical proxies, and the like. The really is no subject where government needs to "butt out." But it needs to be rigidly controlled in what ways it can affect these subjects. Discrimination needs to be prevented, responsible taxation and spending needs to be enforced, our military cannot be allowed to run amok, police and prosecutors need to be held accountable for their transgressions, the list goes on.

As to federal vs state... States are obsolete. Completely useless. There is no reason to have differing rules when crossing an arbitrary line within the same country. It makes business difficult, and allows for abuses of civil rights. There is no issue that is not better settled on a more local level, such as a town or possibly county government, or made uniform and comprehensive by the federal government. States are a relic of the past.
 
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