View Poll Results: Iraq. What was the war about?

Voters
39. You may not vote on this poll
  • The USA was spreading democracy

    5 12.82%
  • The USA OIL corporatocracy was acquiring assets

    15 38.46%
  • Saddam was a big threat and had to be taken out

    5 12.82%
  • none of the above

    14 35.90%
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 84

Thread: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

  1. #71
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    How has the Iraq War affected the price of oil? How have our partners benefited compared to countries like China?
    We don't have $5 gal. gas and we haven't had any gas shortages. Those are what Cheney's Energy Task Force suggested could happen without military intervention in Iraq.


    No it didn't. It required something called negotiations. We could have called for opening up the country's oil trade in exchange for lifting sanctions. It would have been far easier, orderly, and predictable than a war. Yes, American foreign policy has often used regime change and other less than savory means to secure important US business interests. I have no problem with accepting this premise. However, in most of these cases we lacked substantial leverage over these countries. With Iraq we did, in the form of sanctions and no-fly zones.
    We tried that for 10 years, remember? Iraq would not agree to allow exploitation of their oil by the big oil companies.

    What mission?
    The Iraqi government privatized some of 2% of the world's oil production. Iraq was seen as a threat to the rest of the Middle East's oil trade.


    STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

    REPORT OF AN INDEPENDENT TASK FORCE - 2001 (before our invasion of Iraq)


    "U.S. energy independence is not attainable."

    "Persistently tight crude oil markets highlight the concentration of resources in the Middle East Gulf region and the vulnerability of the global economy to domestic conditions in the key producer countries. The Gulf nations have one major asset – their oil and gas reserves. They, like Russia, Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria, Venezuela and some other oil producing nations, depend heavily on hydrocarbons to support their citizens. If the current regimes in the Gulf cannot deliver a better standard of living for rapidly increasing populations, social upheaval could result, and anti-Western elements could gain power. Similar concerns exist with respect to some other oil-producing countries outside the Gulf."

    "Some of the real costs, such as the high-cost U.S. military presence in the Middle East, are already accepted and forgotten by the public."

    RECOMMENDATIONS

    "Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to U.S. allies in the Middle East, as well as
    to regional and global order, and to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets. This would display his personal power, enhance his image as a “Pan-Arab” leader supporting the Palestinians against Israel, and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime.

    The United States should conduct an immediate policy review towards Iraq, including military,
    energy, economic and political/diplomatic assessments."

    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...Dfdt1T9dm0A_PA
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-19-12 at 01:28 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #72
    Devourer of Poor Children
    DrunkenAsparagus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    DC
    Last Seen
    01-20-16 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,496

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We don't have $5 gal. gas and we haven't had any gas shortages. Those are what Cheney's Energy Task Force suggested could happen without military intervention in Iraq.
    Of course this is all speculation, and since Iraqi oil production has not really been higher than before the war, it is based on poor speculation at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We tried that for 10 years, remember? Iraq would not agree to allow exploitation of their oil by the big oil companies.
    When, and how far did our attempts actually go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    STRATEGIC ENERGY POLICY CHALLENGES FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

    REPORT OF AN INDEPENDENT TASK FORCE - 2001 (before our invasion of Iraq)


    "U.S. energy independence is not attainable."

    "Persistently tight crude oil markets highlight the concentration of resources in the Middle East Gulf region and the vulnerability of the global economy to domestic conditions in the key producer countries. The Gulf nations have one major asset – their oil and gas reserves. They, like Russia, Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria, Venezuela and some other oil producing nations, depend heavily on hydrocarbons to support their citizens. If the current regimes in the Gulf cannot deliver a better standard of living for rapidly increasing populations, social upheaval could result, and anti-Western elements could gain power. Similar concerns exist with respect to some other oil-producing countries outside the Gulf."

    "Some of the real costs, such as the high-cost U.S. military presence in the Middle East, are already accepted and forgotten by the public."

    RECOMMENDATIONS

    "Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to U.S. allies in the Middle East, as well as
    to regional and global order, and to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets. This would display his personal power, enhance his image as a “Pan-Arab” leader supporting the Palestinians against Israel, and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime.

    The United States should conduct an immediate policy review towards Iraq, including military,
    energy, economic and political/diplomatic assessments."

    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...Dfdt1T9dm0A_PA
    I said that Washington viewed Iraq as a threat to the Middle East and world oil trades. I only attacked the notion that we invaded Iraq for its oil.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  3. #73
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Of course this is all speculation,
    It was the collected wisdom of the Cheney's Energy Task Force, which included oil company experts from around the world. As they noted (from above),
    "U.S. energy independence is not attainable." and "Persistently tight crude oil markets highlight the concentration of resources in the Middle East Gulf region and the vulnerability of the global economy to domestic conditions in the key producer countries."

    and since Iraqi oil production has not really been higher than before the war, it is based on poor speculation at that.
    What you talking about Willis??? "Iraq has already signed 11 deals with foreign oil companies which will see its production quintuple to about 12 million barrels per day (mbpd) by 2017."

    Can Iraq become world


    When, and how far did our attempts actually go?
    Well, we killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions during the Gulf war and sanctions. How much more convincing do you think they needed???



    I said that Washington viewed Iraq as a threat to the Middle East and world oil trades. I only attacked the notion that we invaded Iraq for its oil.
    Give me a reason we had to invade and occupy one of the least powerful countries on the planet for almost a decade that didn't involve oil, or that represented a threat to the US?
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-19-12 at 06:13 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #74
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No they were not, our own intelligence agency confirmed they were not, not to mention the 700 inspections by the UN, which is why the UN would not authorize use of force against them.
    Good point. Actually that was why I disagreed with military action (their compliance with UN inspectors). However, we had other (faulty) intelligence that was showing otherwise as well.
    If Iraq did not contain the 2nd largest oil reserves left on the planet and wasn't just about the weakest military power on the planet, we would have never have invaded and occupied their country for almost a decade. There was absolutely no other reason, which has become clear to most these days.

    Even a majority of the Vets from that war say it wasn't worth it.
    Well, personally I think if there was no suspicion of nuclear weapons we would not have invaded. Not saying it was worth it. My opinion is that oil just happens to be there and it makes for all sorts of good stories like the one you are telling.

  5. #75
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Good point. Actually that was why I disagreed with military action (their compliance with UN inspectors). However, we had other (faulty) intelligence that was showing otherwise as well.


    Well, personally I think if there was no suspicion of nuclear weapons we would not have invaded. Not saying it was worth it. My opinion is that oil just happens to be there and it makes for all sorts of good stories like the one you are telling.
    We knew we destroyed their military capacity in the Gulf war and that 10 years of sanctions didn't let them rebuild, and you are ignoring Cheney's energy task force report in 2001 that outlined the importance to us of military action to remove the instability with Iraq oil supplies.
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-20-12 at 02:57 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #76
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Prague, Czech Rep.
    Last Seen
    10-10-12 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,880

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    If you accept that the goal of the war was to eliminate Saddam Hussein and bring relative stability to a strategic part of the world (oil), then those goals have been largely accomplished. Kurds are no longer gassed. Kuwait & Saudi is no longer under threat of invasion by Iraq. Iraq is not going to invade Iran. Iraqi oil taps are open and the country no longer faces the sanctions which we were told eliminated almost an entire generation of children

    The proverbial silver lining.

  7. #77
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
    Last Seen
    09-14-14 @ 02:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    14,700

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Sadam was viewed as a thread and that's why the Iraq war was started. He was a crazy dictator in a hostile and fragile part of the world.
    You got off to a good start but if Saddam was in a part of the world with no resources the USA has to have, we would of ignored him just like we ignore the parts of Africa that are killing people with wild abandon because they don't have oil. We didn't go in there to steal oil as some claim but we did go there to theoretically stabilize a part of the world that has us literally over a barrel, an oil barrel to be precise. Until we get a president that will allow pipelines from Canada and new drilling in USA, we will continue to spend blood and treasure in the cess pool known as the middle east.

  8. #78
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Do you grasp that some American oil companies in Iraq does not mean that the US controls Iraq's oil assets?

    A. US companies are not controlled by the US, they are independent

    B. Does the article mention other nation's oil companies in Iraq?

    C. Does all the Iraqi oil go directly to the US, or does it get sold on the open market?
    First, I don't believe iraq was about oil. That said, we don't have to control it for it to help us concerning oil. More oil on the market, and no move to the Euro does help the country.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #79
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    If you accept that the goal of the war was to eliminate Saddam Hussein and bring relative stability to a strategic part of the world (oil), then those goals have been largely accomplished. Kurds are no longer gassed. Kuwait & Saudi is no longer under threat of invasion by Iraq. Iraq is not going to invade Iran. Iraqi oil taps are open and the country no longer faces the sanctions which we were told eliminated almost an entire generation of children

    The proverbial silver lining.
    Saddam was gassing the Kurds when he we were his ally. American companies even provided the precursor for the illegal mustard gas that was used.
    Iraq was of no threat to Kuwait & Saudi Arabia after the Persian Gulf war when we completely destroyed their military capability to be threat to any of their neighbors, and it appears that Iraq will return to civil war to determine what type of government they wish to have, after almost 5,000 Americans sacrificed and almost $2 trillion in National debt.

    Where is the silver lining again???
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #80
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Prague, Czech Rep.
    Last Seen
    10-10-12 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,880

    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    Where is the silver lining again???
    Kurds are no longer gassed. Kuwait & Saudi is no longer under threat of invasion by Iraq. Iraq is not going to invade Iran. Iraqi oil taps are open and the country no longer faces the sanctions which we were told eliminated almost an entire generation of children

Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •