View Poll Results: Iraq. What was the war about?

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  • The USA was spreading democracy

    5 12.82%
  • The USA OIL corporatocracy was acquiring assets

    15 38.46%
  • Saddam was a big threat and had to be taken out

    5 12.82%
  • none of the above

    14 35.90%
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Thread: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

  1. #61
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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Are you saying you think that big oil had nothing to do with it, or are you just disagreeing with Catawba?
    Disagreeing. I didn't make the claim.

    OK, you made a huge jump here ... you may need to explain yourself more clearly... are you saying that involvement in this war was inevitable?
    I am saying, given a situation where we had already invaded Iraq, not changing the oil laws or not allowing investment by big oil companies in Iraq would have made the war longer and worse. Whether you are for or against the invasion, you would want to support changing the oil laws and allowing big oil investment for those reasons.

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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, I didn't prove it was about oil. Cheney's report Energy Challenges for the 21st Century together with the most powerful country on the planet invading and occupying for almost a decade one of the weakest countries on the planet is what proves it.
    Iraq was thought to be in violation of NPT and producing nuclear weapons. That would be another reason.

    Without our regime change and the new oil law we wrote for them and propped them up to support, big oil would still be locked out of Iraq today.
    No ****, but if this war was about oil or not we would have done the same things, as I have explained numerous times.

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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Iraq was thought to be in violation of NPT and producing nuclear weapons. That would be another reason.
    No they were not, our own intelligence agency confirmed they were not, not to mention the 700 inspections by the UN, which is why the UN would not authorize use of force against them.



    No ****, but if this war was about oil or not we would have done the same things, as I have explained numerous times.

    If Iraq did not contain the 2nd largest oil reserves left on the planet and wasn't just about the weakest military power on the planet, we would have never have invaded and occupied their country for almost a decade. There was absolutely no other reason, which has become clear to most these days.

    Even a majority of the Vets from that war say it wasn't worth it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why don't people read a thread before they pipe in?
    Do you grasp that some American oil companies in Iraq does not mean that the US controls Iraq's oil assets?

    A. US companies are not controlled by the US, they are independent

    B. Does the article mention other nation's oil companies in Iraq?

    C. Does all the Iraqi oil go directly to the US, or does it get sold on the open market?

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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Do you grasp that some American oil companies in Iraq does not mean that the US controls Iraq's oil assets?

    A. US companies are not controlled by the US, they are independent

    B. Does the article mention other nation's oil companies in Iraq?

    C. Does all the Iraqi oil go directly to the US, or does it get sold on the open market?

    This was already addressed here:



    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Western Oil Firms Remain as US Exits Iraq | Truthout

    ""Only a nave child could believe the Americans came here for something besides our oil," Ahmed Ali, an unemployed engineer, told Al Jazeera. "Nor can we believe their being here has anything to do with helping the Iraqi people."

    Basim al-Khalili, a restaurant owner in Baghdad's Karada district, agrees.

    "If Iraq had no oil, would America have sacrificed thousands of its soldiers and hundreds of billions of dollars to come here?"

    Oil analyst Juhasz also agrees.

    "The US and other western oil companies and their governments had been lobbying for passage of a new national law in Iraq, the Iraq Oil Law, which would move Iraq from a nationalised to a largely privatised oil market using Production Sharing Agreements (PSAs), a type of contract model used in just approximately 12 per cent of the world's oil market."

    She explained that this agreement has been summarily rejected by most countries, including all of Iraq's neighbours, "because it provides far more benefits to the foreign corporation than to the domestic government".

    But it has not been an easy road for the western oil companies in Iraq."



    This is an Al Jazeera (Arab/MidEast) view of the Iraqi situation. Is it accurate? Is it lies? Is it propaganda? Why is the popularized USA view of spreading democracy so widely believed in the USA? Do OIL corporations have enough power in our USA gov't to initiate asset wars? Did you vote for that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That doesn't fly, as Iraq did better than most Middle Eastern countries though the 35 years of their nationalized oil policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    Oil played a role, but the war was primarily about nation building. Here it is, straight from the neocons' mouths.

    At present the United States faces no global rival. America’s grand strategy should aim to preserve and extend this advantageous position as far into the future as possible.

    Under the section of Army: To ‘Complete’ Europe And Defend the Persian Gulf , you will find explicit statements such as, In short, the value of land power continues to appeal to a global superpower, whose security interests rest upon maintaining and expanding a world-wide system of alliances as well as on the ability to win wars. While maintaining its combat role, the U.S. Army has acquired new missions in the past decade – most immediately, missions associated with completing the task of creating a Europe “whole and free” and defending American interests in the Persian Gulf and Middle East.

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As made clear in the recommendations in Cheney's Task Force Report, before the 9/11 attack, together with the complete lack of evidence of WMD, the primary purpose of the our war on one of the most defenseless countries in the planet was getting big oil back into Iraq for the first time since Iraq nationalized their oil 35 years before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "defending American interests in the Persian Gulf and Middle East."

    That's what it all comes back to, our dependence on others property.

    "Official: US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis


    President Bush's Cabinet agreed in April 2001 that "Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East" and because this is an unacceptable risk to the US "military intervention" is necessary.

    Vice-president Dick Cheney, who chairs the White House Energy Policy Development Group, commissioned a report on "energy security" from the Baker Institute for Public Policy, a think-tank set up by James Baker, the former US secretary of state under George Bush Snr.

    The report, Strategic Energy Policy Challenges For The 21st Century, concludes: "The United States remains a prisoner of its energy dilemma. Iraq remains a de-stabilising influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export programme to manipulate oil markets. Therefore the US should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq including military, energy, economic and political/ diplomatic assessments.

    "The United States should then develop an integrated strategy with key allies in Europe and Asia, and with key countries in the Middle East, to restate goals with respect to Iraqi policy and to restore a cohesive coalition of key allies."

    Baker who delivered the recommendations to Cheney, the former chief executive of Texas oil firm Halliburton, was advised by Kenneth Lay, the disgraced former chief executive of Enron, the US energy giant which went bankrupt after carrying out massive accountancy fraud.

    The other advisers to Baker were: Luis Giusti, a Shell non- executive director; John Manzoni, regional president of BP and David O'Reilly, chief executive of ChevronTexaco. Another name linked to the document is Sheikh Saud Al Nasser Al Sabah, the former Kuwaiti oil minister and a fellow of the Baker Institute.

    Official: US Oil at the Heart of Iraq Crisis
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Because, we understand that oil is bought and sold on the world market and that Iraq (with the second largest reserves of easily accessible oil in the world) had kept big oil out of Iraq for the last 35 years since they nationalized their oil. It was made very clear in the recommendations in Cheney's Task Force Report - Energy Challenges in the 21st Century:

    March, 2001

    "RECOMMENDATIONS

    "Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to U.S. allies in the Middle East, as well as
    to regional and global order, and to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets. This would display his personal power, enhance his image as a “Pan-Arab” leader supporting the Palestinians against Israel, and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime.

    The United States should conduct an immediate policy review towards Iraq, including military, energy, economic and political/diplomatic assessments."

    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...Dfdt1T9dm0A_PA
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We did a good job, it just took us years longer than the cakewalk we thought it would be. After the Persian Gulf war and our 10 years of sanctions, Iraq was one of weakest countries on the planet.

    Iraq kicked big oil out of their country when it Nationalized its oil 35 years ago. The only way to get big oil back in was invasion, regime change, occupation and a new oil law, which we accomplished.

    Did you miss the banner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its not about Western contractors, oil is a global commodity, it is about getting big oil back into Iraq for the first time in 35 years, so those who have invested in the global oil market, can continue to rake in record profits, and assure as uninterrupted supply of middle east oil to the US and our partners in the invasion. Read about the perceived necessity of the war spelled out in Cheney's Task force report.




    The same Nationalized oil law that kept big oil out of Iraq before the sanctions would still have been in place after the sanction. The Iraqi oil law had to be changed and that required a regime change that was US friendly that would agree to change the oil law.

    Mission Accomplished!
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-19-12 at 03:35 AM.
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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    This was already addressed here:
    Again, we don't control Iraqi oil. Nowhere do you make this case.

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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    I'm going to say I don't really ****ing know.

    But from the information that is available to me - I'd probably say it was more about incompetence than anything else.

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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Again, we don't control Iraqi oil. Nowhere do you make this case.
    Our mission was to get big oil back in Iraq for the first time in 35 years which had been kept out by Iraq's Nationalized oil law.


    Mission Accomplished!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm going to say I don't really ****ing know.

    But from the information that is available to me - I'd probably say it was more about incompetence than anything else.
    I really don't know either, but I do think it had more with wanting a presence there, as we couldn't be in SA, than anything like oil. But I wouldn't rule out incompetence playing a role.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iraq and OIL. What was the war about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its not about Western contractors, oil is a global commodity, it is about getting big oil back into Iraq for the first time in 35 years, so those who have invested in the global oil market, can continue to rake in record profits, and assure as uninterrupted supply of middle east oil to the US and our partners in the invasion. Read about the perceived necessity of the war spelled out in Cheney's Task force report.
    How has the Iraq War affected the price of oil? How have our partners benefited compared to countries like China?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The same Nationalized oil law that kept big oil out of Iraq before the sanctions would still have been in place after the sanction. The Iraqi oil law had to be changed and that required a regime change that was US friendly that would agree to change the oil law.
    No it didn't. It required something called negotiations. We could have called for opening up the country's oil trade in exchange for lifting sanctions. It would have been far easier, orderly, and predictable than a war. Yes, American foreign policy has often used regime change and other less than savory means to secure important US business interests. I have no problem with accepting this premise. However, in most of these cases we lacked substantial leverage over these countries. With Iraq we did, in the form of sanctions and no-fly zones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Mission Accomplished!
    What mission? The Iraqi government privatized some of 2% of the world's oil production. Iraq was seen as a threat to the rest of the Middle East's oil trade.
    "Doubleplusungood"

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