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"Obamacare"

Is "Obamacare" good for America?

  • Yes, it's an overall positive for America

    Votes: 12 52.2%

  • No, it's an overall negative for America

    Votes: 8 34.8%

  • I honestly don't know/Other

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • Total voters
    23
Wake

Wake

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Is "Obamacare" really that good for the nation or not? It's supposedly going to take effect in 2014, iirc.

When "Obamacare" first became a hot topic I was interested in hearing the pros and cons of the movement, yet shortly thereafter I lost all interest because, quite simply, there was too much info and too much bias. As with most issues, I would see articles on the same subject, yet have completely different and biased accounts. So, I gave up on poring into the "depths" because the truth, apparently, was kept so obscure. Hidden, basically.

So now that I'm bored with the other dead horse issues, I'd like to bring up this issue, since it's one I haven't put much focus on.

Is "Obamacare", or should I say National Healthcare, good for our nation or not? I want to know the actual facts, and the most pertinent data. I have heard far too many things that are negative about NHC, from there being death panels, to being a means to bring about "socialism." Likewise, equally clueless liberals defend Obamacare with equally biased claims. So, what is it? How am I to deduce what the actual facts are? Is it true that people can be fined/jailed for refusing to be a part of Obamacare? If so, that';s really bad, right? Or is it not so bad, since we all must have car insurance to drive, thus making it odd to accept having the requirement of car insurance yet not health insurance.

Is it true that this care will be like Canada, and that if you're older/less useful you'll have to wait in a long line for care?

How, exactly, is this going to affect me?
 
Over half a million union hacks have BOCare waivers........that should tell you something.

BOCare is still being written as we debate the subject matter. The Secretary of DHHS has virtually unlimited power to craft whatever the hell she wants to craft. At the end of the day this law, if allowed to go into full effect, will permanently bankrupt the Country......period. It will also be the largest single expansion of the entitlement state in our history. Unless you make almost $100k, you will get free or massively subsidized HC benefits. As we have learned, once you start giving away all of the free goodies to the beggar class, they will want more.

As to the mandate...if SCOTUS lets that stand, throw away the Constitution since the political elites could justify making people do whatever they want them to do by using the commerce clause.
 
conservativeguy said:
Unless you make almost $100k, you will get free or massively subsidized HC benefits. As we have learned, once you start giving away all of the free goodies to the beggar class, they will want more.
Click to expand...

This, in effect, turns the vast majority of us into “the beggar class”. From where do you think the money will come to pay for the “free or massively subsidized HC benefits” for those of us making less than $100K? It will come from a much smaller number of people who make more than that. A small minority paying for benefits to the majority. Does anyone seriously believe that there is enough money that can be taken in taxes from that minority to pay the promised benefits to the majority? Don't they teach basic math in schools any more?
 
The Afford Care Act has a few significant changes and a lot of minor ones. The highlights

1) Everyone is required to have health insurance.
2) You can't be denied health insurance based on pre-existing conditions.
3) Tax credits, medicaid extensions and structural changes which provide significant benefits to low income individuals and small benefits to most other citizens.
4) Creation of state-based health exchanges, which are basically a marketplace for health insurance plans.

I'll be the first to admit that my grasp of such a complicated bill for a such a complicated system is limited at best. How the health insurance and medical industry will respond is hard to predict. Anyone who pretends the plan will save or doom us is exaggerating. I'd say best cost scenario is that we increase % national overage at-cost, worst case scenario we increase federal spending and raise the overall price of insurance plans.
 
Strictly based on a financial outcome I think it will be a catastrophe that is not taking other aspects into consideration. I believe in only a decade or two it will be another large government system that bleeds massive amounts of money that cannot be stemmed, perhaps more then any other item in the budget. Look at every other government run healthcare subsidy and they are all way over budget in a short time.
 
rathi said:
The Afford Care Act has a few significant changes and a lot of minor ones. The highlights

1) Everyone is required to have health insurance.
2) You can't be denied health insurance based on pre-existing conditions.
3) Tax credits, medicaid extensions and structural changes which provide significant benefits to low income individuals and small benefits to most other citizens.
4) Creation of state-based health exchanges, which are basically a marketplace for health insurance plans.

I'll be the first to admit that my grasp of such a complicated bill for a such a complicated system is limited at best. How the health insurance and medical industry will respond is hard to predict. Anyone who pretends the plan will save or doom us is exaggerating. I'd say best cost scenario is that we increase % national overage at-cost, worst case scenario we increase federal spending and raise the overall price of insurance plans.
Click to expand...

How can you dismiss the people that are saying this plan will doom us when you admit you don't know how the plan actually works? The law was based on outright lies, such as cutting medicare by $500 billlion. When that doesn't happen, and it won't, do you think raising the pemiums on the few people that are already paying the bills will be a non-event? When the mandate is struck down and people are allowed to sign up for hc insurance AFTER they know they are sick, do you have any idea what this will do to those that have been paying for their hc insurance..........google "health care rationing". Even the liberal economists admit this POS plan will bend the cost curve up-wards. BO and his cronies ignored every viable tool they could have used to make the hc industry more competitive. They decided unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats can run an industry better than capitalists.......don't hold your breath waiting for that to turn out well.
 
Wake said:
Is "Obamacare" really that good for the nation or not? It's supposedly going to take effect in 2014, iirc.

When "Obamacare" first became a hot topic I was interested in hearing the pros and cons of the movement, yet shortly thereafter I lost all interest because, quite simply, there was too much info and too much bias. As with most issues, I would see articles on the same subject, yet have completely different and biased accounts. So, I gave up on poring into the "depths" because the truth, apparently, was kept so obscure. Hidden, basically.

So now that I'm bored with the other dead horse issues, I'd like to bring up this issue, since it's one I haven't put much focus on.

Is "Obamacare", or should I say National Healthcare, good for our nation or not? I want to know the actual facts, and the most pertinent data. I have heard far too many things that are negative about NHC, from there being death panels, to being a means to bring about "socialism." Likewise, equally clueless liberals defend Obamacare with equally biased claims. So, what is it? How am I to deduce what the actual facts are? Is it true that people can be fined/jailed for refusing to be a part of Obamacare? If so, that';s really bad, right? Or is it not so bad, since we all must have car insurance to drive, thus making it odd to accept having the requirement of car insurance yet not health insurance.

Is it true that this care will be like Canada, and that if you're older/less useful you'll have to wait in a long line for care?

How, exactly, is this going to affect me?
Click to expand...

If you can find an unbiased brief summary of the provisions in this bill, God bless ya'.

I'm content in knowing that a life-long problem of mine and millions like me has been solved. I've been an entrepreneur all of my life. As such, I had to buy my healthcare insurance as an individual...not part of a group. That insurance today costs me $650/month -- with a $5,200 yearly deductible. Up until two years ago, and for five years before that, my insurance cost me about $10,000 a year, with a $5,000 yearly deductible. I was lucky. I could afford it. Many entrepreneurs are not so lucky. And then play the lottery because they either can't afford premiums or, even more importantly, can't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions.

People say, hey, nobody goes without healthcare in this country! Show up at the emergency room and you're good as gold! Yes, that's true -- for a particular emergency. Have diabetes? You aren't going to get emergency room care/treatment for it unless you're in diabetic shock. Have cancer? You aren't going to get chemotherapy or radiation. Until and unless you are homeless -- having spent all of your money on your own care.

Obamacare with fix that...with people kicking and screaming their way into the future. It's a good thing.
 
Certain aspects are positive, most are negative.
 
I have no problem with requiring that insurance companies to accept those with pre-existing conditions. That imo is the ONLY good thing about this Obamacare.

The rest of it is crap. Crap crap crap crap and more crap heaped upon a mile high pile of crap. It will raise the costs of health insurance dramatically and if SCOTUS doesn't get rid of the mandate part of it there will be absolutly nothing that the Government can't make a law about.
 
What scares me is the supposed long lines. Long lines... regarding waiting for treatment.

I have heard stories about Canada's healthcare system, and others, and if such will be the same here then I don't like it.

Say I cut my finger off. How long, do you reckon, must I wait for treatment if there's a long line?
 
Wake said:
What scares me is the supposed long lines. Long lines... regarding waiting for treatment.

I have heard stories about Canada's healthcare system, and others, and if such will be the same here then I don't like it.

Say I cut my finger off. How long, do you reckon, must I wait for treatment if there's a long line?
Click to expand...

If you cut your finger off today, in many emergency rooms you will wait hours.,,.and hours. Emergency medicine sucks. Know why? Because so many people without assets and insurance use the emergency room as their family doctors. The doctors and nurses in two of our major hospitals in the Chicago area are complacent and jaded because of it. I'd guess it's the same all over the country.
 
Wake said:
What scares me is the supposed long lines. Long lines... regarding waiting for treatment.

I have heard stories about Canada's healthcare system, and others, and if such will be the same here then I don't like it.

Say I cut my finger off. How long, do you reckon, must I wait for treatment if there's a long line?
Click to expand...

Helathcare wait times are complicated and involve many specific factors. The U.S. does has shorter wait times for non-critical and elective surgery. Its about equal with Canada on emergency room waiting, like your finger loss scenario. The U.S. is actually somewhat worse when it comes to getting medical care on holidays or after hours. Regional differences in the U.S. and Canada are quite immense in addition to the specific sort of treatment you are seeking.

As far as the impact of the Affordable Care Act goes, people will newly obtained health insurance will head to hospitals rather than waiting for emergency care. That will probably lead to a longer wait at the doctors office, but a shorter wait at the emergency room.
 
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