View Poll Results: Is sharing the Aegis (SM-3) missile systems with Russia a good idea?

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Thread: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

  1. #71
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Why would you need Aegis to shoot down a passenger airliner? You can just do that with a surface to air missile... Aegis wouldn't be involved. Aegis is needed for shooting down missiles because missiles move really fast. You don't need anything like that just to shoot down a plane.
    Actually it is designed to guide SAMs into planes.

    Just ask the people on flight 655.

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Why would you need Aegis to shoot down a passenger airliner? You can just do that with a surface to air missile... Aegis wouldn't be involved. Aegis is needed for shooting down missiles because missiles move really fast. You don't need anything like that just to shoot down a plane.
    How about a fighter jet?

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    TVC (Thrust vector control) was first used on the Russian Su-37 prototype before it were incorporated into US designs (F-35 and F-22).
    TVC (Thrust vector control) was first used on the British Hawker Siddeley Harrier in 1967. The Russians first tried to copy it on the Yak-38 (with poor results) and later got a better result on the Su-27. The Su-37 is employing using TVC 19 years after introduced in the Su-27
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Muhammed is referring to when the USS Vincennes shot down Iranian airliner flight 655 in 1988. It was purely accidental and a lot of the details are still hotly debated.

    The SM-3 is designed for shooting down aircraft. That is it's primary purpose. It's not very good for shooting down ICBMs which is what Russia is concerned about. Obama is considering giving info on the SM-3 to allay their fears and help missile shield negotiations.
    Actually, my understanding is that the SM-3 was designed specifically for shooting down missiles. A bunch of countries have the SM-3: Israel, Japan, Poland, Romania, South Korea, etc.

    Some ships have that, most have the older SM-2 which was designed for shooting down aircraft. They both work fine with Aegis. The SM-2 is just a plain old surface to air missile like any other. It is 30 years old now. It comes from way before Aegis was invented. Russia most definitely has surface to air missiles more sophisticated than that now. Probably a dozen countries in the world sell surface to air missiles that sophisticated or better and virtually every country owns surface to air missiles that sophisticated or better.

    What Russia is after here isn't the missile, it's the Aegis system that pinpoints the incoming missile and whatnot. The missiles are nothing special or secret. A bunch of countries have Aegis too: the Netherlands, South Korea, Japan, the UK, etc. But that is the more unique technology and Russia doesn't have it or any equivalent currently. But that tech is purely defensive, so it's safe to use it as a bargaining chip.

    But, yeah, you raise a good point. One of the reasons Obama wants to share anti-missile tech with Russia is to defuse concerns that the US might be deploying anti-missile tech because once it has a missile shield up it can start threatening the world with it's nukes without worrying about retaliation. That's a silly fear. The anti-missile systems are nowhere near reliable enough to do anything like that and ICBMs aren't the only way to deliver a nuke. But, whatever, if it makes Russia less jittery about it, that's a big plus.

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Just google "patton invade ussr"...
    I was requesting a source that says the use of the Atomic bomb on the japanese was a warning to the USSR more than a method of ending the war.

    Er what? Where did you hear that? I've never heard anything like that. Do you have a source?
    After the two bombs were dropped over japan, president truman informed Stalin of their research into nuclear technology (up to that point only the US and Britain were involved in its development). Stalin was already aware of their progress because he had spies who kept him informed throughout the entire process... as a show of cooperation truman gave stalin the tech publicly since he already had it. Kind of a PR campaign but still. Thats all available on wikipedia.


    No, no, no... The clever innovation of Aegis is the ability to pinpoint the incoming missiles. Surface to air missiles have existed for decades. That's nothing new. We just use our normal surface to air missiles with it, not any specialized missile.
    A normal surface to air missile does not have the capability to intercept an ICBM

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Actually it is designed to guide SAMs into planes.

    Just ask the people on flight 655.
    No, that is completely false. The full name of the system is "Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System"... It was designed by the DoD's "Missile Defense Agency"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    How about a fighter jet?
    Sure, you can shoot down fighter jets with normal surface to air missiles. That's what the US would use to do it- their usual surface to air missile system, not Aegis.

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    I was requesting a source that says the use of the Atomic bomb on the japanese was a warning to the USSR more than a method of ending the war.
    Oh, ok. It isn't like the president declared that it was a warning to the Soviets or something, that's just what most commentators and historians say was the reason we did it. I've heard that dozens of times on documentaries and in articles and whatnot. For that one I would recommend googling "hiroshima warning ussr"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    After the two bombs were dropped over japan, president truman informed Stalin of their research into nuclear technology (up to that point only the US and Britain were involved in its development). Stalin was already aware of their progress because he had spies who kept him informed throughout the entire process... as a show of cooperation truman gave stalin the tech publicly since he already had it. Kind of a PR campaign but still. Thats all available on wikipedia.
    Ok, so you answered your own question then- we didn't give them anything they didn't already have. I am not familiar with the incident, so I don't know anything else about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    A normal surface to air missile does not have the capability to intercept an ICBM
    Yeah it does. In fact until recently the only SAM we used with Aegis was the SM-2. The SM-2 is just the standard surface to air missile that we happened to already have deployed on our boats. It was from the 80s.

    What a normal surface to air missile does not have the capability to do by itself is pinpoint the incoming ICBM and calculate exactly where it will be in X seconds precisely enough. Any surface to air missile can be told "go to these exact coordinates and blow up", it's getting those coordinates right that is the tough part. That's what Aegis does.

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    And what knowledge does Russia have to share with us? They havent made any technological breakthroughs that have made news in my lifetime... Also, sharing knowledge, and sharing military technology, be it defensive or offensive, are two different things.. knowledge is knowledge, nevertheless... and, the cold war is over ! .
    Like it or not, Russia is one of the ten most advanced nations on this planet.
    Did we ever trouble ourselves to ask them about Afghanistan ?

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Some ships have that, most have the older SM-2 which was designed for shooting down aircraft. They both work fine with Aegis. The SM-2 is just a plain old surface to air missile like any other. It is 30 years old now. It comes from way before Aegis was invented. Russia most definitely has surface to air missiles more sophisticated than that now. Probably a dozen countries in the world sell surface to air missiles that sophisticated or better and virtually every country owns surface to air missiles that sophisticated or better.

    What Russia is after here isn't the missile, it's the Aegis system that pinpoints the incoming missile and whatnot. The missiles are nothing special or secret. A bunch of countries have Aegis too: the Netherlands, South Korea, Japan, the UK, etc. But that is the more unique technology and Russia doesn't have it or any equivalent currently. But that tech is purely defensive, so it's safe to use it as a bargaining chip.
    Don't knock the SM-2 too hard. It's an excellent system, one of the very best out there. And the SM-2 was specifically designed to operate with Aegis. The SM-1 is 30 years old. The SM-2ER Block IV is only 12 years old.
    RIM-67 Standard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The second generation of Standard missile, the Standard Missile 2, was developed for the Aegis combat system,
    And check out the link in OP again. Obama is NOT planning to give up Aegis, he's planning on sharing specs (not the specific technology) of the SM-3. The Russians may want Aegis tech, but that's not part of the deal.
    Last edited by EagleAye; 01-13-12 at 03:40 PM.
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Don't knock the SM-2 too hard. It's an excellent system, one of the very best out there. And the SM-2 was specifically designed to operate with Aegis. The SM-1 is 30 years old. The SM-2ER Block IV is only 12 years old.
    RIM-67 Standard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Ah, you're right. I was reading the stuff on the SM-1.

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    And check out the link in OP again. Obama is NOT planning to give up Aegis, he's planning on sharing specs (not the specific technology) of the SM-3. The Russians may want Aegis tech, but that's not part of the deal.
    Just the specs!?! What's the hoopla about then? Countries like Romania have the actual SM-2 missiles... So this hype is just purely a Washington Times creation. Again.... Never believe the moonie rag!

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