View Poll Results: Is sharing the Aegis (SM-3) missile systems with Russia a good idea?

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Thread: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

  1. #61
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Patton for one.
    Source please..

    You're confused. We aren't giving them nuclear technology. The Aegis system is not nuclear, it is an anti-missle defense system from the 90s. The reason we're giving it to them is in exchange for them agreeing to reduce their stockpile of nukes.
    Im refering to the end of WWII when we were the only ones with nuclear technology, and we gave it to our "Allies". We gave nuclear technology to Russia and Britain. We have regretted it with Russia ever since.

    Aegis isn't a missile, it's a technology we use on boats to detect the exact location of incoming missiles. Then we just fire any standard surface to air missile at them. Regardless, the idea that Russia would somehow gain by trying to adapt a surface to air missile for use to deliver nukes is silly. They have ICBMs with rages like 8,000 miles and whatnot. A surface to air missile like we use with Aegis only have a range of like 80 miles. A surface to air missile is much smaller than an ICBM. Etc. But, again, Aegis isn't the missile technology, it's the detection technology.
    That is also incorrect... While part of the system is used for detecting ballistic missiles, not just any surface to air missile can be used to intercept it. They have to be compatible to that system as well as capable of intercepting an ICBM. Are we only giving Russia the radar portion of that technology? Do they already posses a missile that can intercept an ICBM? If so, why do they need us? Whether they use the system to deliver nukes or not, it can easily be used to shoot down say a fighter jet, in place of a ballistic missile.


    You should read up on it a bit. Russia had thousands of nukes at one point and has basically lost track of quite a few of them that nobody knows where they are. Places like North Korea have like 1 bomb that they are never going to part with in a million years. Lost or stolen Russian nukes is most definitely our biggest worry at the moment in terms of terrorists.
    And how many have been used? Ever? In the world? If they are in the hands of terrorists, why havent they been used? And do we really have ANY idea how many nukes North Korea has? Have they let anyone come take a look recently? Would they tell us if they did? Not to say that the nukes in Russia are not a potential danger, i dont agree that giving them military tech in exchange for getting rid of some is a good idea.

    No, but when the threats come up against one another we certainly give priority to the more likely one. In this case the threat from terrorism is far more likely than the threat of a war with Russia. And, regardless, this deal would DECREASE the threat of a war with Russia. Less nukes and more defensive tech makes them LESS of a threat...
    As cited above, giving technology to Russia has proven NOT to be a deterent to aggression.
    Last edited by Dpetty; 01-13-12 at 01:57 PM.

  2. #62
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Guys, what we're talking about is only the SM-3 (Standard Missile 3) and not the entire Aegis system. So it's not as horrific as it sounds. The SM-3 is not an effective interceptor for ICBMs. It IS too slow for that. The SM-3 has a max speed of roughly Mach 7.8, while a boosting ICBM has a burnout speed of Mach 20.57 and warhead reentry speed of Mach 11.75. In order for effective intercepts, and interceptor must be at least as fast as the target, ideally much faster. The SM-3 could be used effective against medium-range missiles - very effective against crude systems like the Russian SCUDs - but would be only a desperation move against the latest ICBMs.

    A lot depends on which block (version) and what specific details they want to give. If we provide info on the Block I, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Block II info? I'm starting not to like it. If we're on the cusp of producing something far better (which I think is likely) even Block II info might not be too bad.
    Raytheon RIM-161 Standard SM-3

    Still, I am opposed to it. Russia must never be confused to be our friend. They are not now, and it could easily get worse in the future. If the data is innocuous enough (performance parameters only) and newer models are ready for the fleet, then it might be acceptable. But with what I can easily lookup on the internet (obviously unclassified) I would say no.
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  3. #63
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    Source please..
    Just google "patton invade ussr"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    Im refering to the end of WWII when we were the only ones with nuclear technology, and we gave it to our "Allies". We gave nuclear technology to Russia and Britain. We have regretted it with Russia ever since.
    Er what? Where did you hear that? I've never heard anything like that. Do you have a source?

    Soviet atomic bomb project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    That is also incorrect... While part of the system is used for detecting ballistic missiles, not just any surface to air missile can be used to intercept it. They have to be compatible to that system as well as capable of intercepting an ICBM. Are we only giving Russia the radar portion of that technology? Do they already posses a missile that can intercept an ICBM? If so, why do they need us? Whether they use the system to deliver nukes or not, it can easily be used to shoot down say a fighter jet, in place of a ballistic missile.
    No, no, no... The clever innovation of Aegis is the ability to pinpoint the incoming missiles. Surface to air missiles have existed for decades. That's nothing new. We just use our normal surface to air missiles with it, not any specialized missile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    And how many have been used? Ever? In the world? If they are in the hands of terrorists, why havent they been used? And do we really have ANY idea how many nukes North Korea has? Have they let anyone come take a look recently? Would they tell us if they did? Not to say that the nukes in Russia are not a potential danger, i dont agree that giving them military tech in exchange for getting rid of some is a good idea.
    Just read up on it. It's too big of a topic to try to go through with you here.
    Last edited by teamosil; 01-13-12 at 02:17 PM.

  4. #64
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Aegis is just a missile DEFENSE system, it's not an offensive weapon.
    That is like saying that a handgun is a defensive system. The reality is that it can be used defensively or offensively.

    For instance, it can be used to shoot down a passenger airliner with 290 people on board.
    Last edited by Muhammed; 01-13-12 at 02:18 PM.

  5. #65
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    That is like saying that a handgun is a defensive system. The reality is that it can be used defensively or offensively.

    For instance, it can be used to shoot down a passenger airliner with 290 passengers on board.
    Why would you need Aegis to shoot down a passenger airliner? You can just do that with a surface to air missile... Aegis wouldn't be involved. Aegis is needed for shooting down missiles because missiles move really fast. You don't need anything like that just to shoot down a plane.

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Military tech should never be shared with other countries.Nor should be we selling or giving military equipment to other countries.If history has taught us anything is that friends can become enemies really quick and we do not be basically arming our future enemies.
    Military tech is shared freely with the US govt and it's our enemy.

  7. #67
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    The USA is the largest arms dealer in the world. If you're gonna be an arms dealer, you have to have arms to sell. It would also be good business to start wars to drum up business. If you can sell a few of these to the right spot, can you gin up a war and a little uptick in sales.

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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    And what knowledge does Russia have to share with us? They havent made any technological breakthroughs that have made news in my lifetime...
    TVC (Thrust vector control) was first used on the Russian Su-37 prototype before it were incorporated into US designs (F-35 and F-22).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    Also, sharing knowledge, and sharing military technology, be it defensive or offensive, are two different things.
    The US doesn't need to share anything w/Russia or China for those two countries to have it, because they're completely adept at stealing US technology.

  9. #69
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    TVC (Thrust vector control) was first used on the Russian Su-37 prototype before it were incorporated into US designs (F-35 and F-22).
    Did Russia give us that technology?

    The US doesn't need to share anything w/Russia or China for those two countries to have it, because they're completely adept at stealing US technology.
    Agreed but that is a different issue entirley. China stole our stealth tech just recently.

  10. #70
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    Re: US willing to share Aegis missile tech with Russia - good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Why would you need Aegis to shoot down a passenger airliner? You can just do that with a surface to air missile... Aegis wouldn't be involved. Aegis is needed for shooting down missiles because missiles move really fast. You don't need anything like that just to shoot down a plane.
    Muhammed is referring to when the USS Vincennes shot down Iranian airliner flight 655 in 1988. It was purely accidental and a lot of the details are still hotly debated.

    The SM-3 is designed for shooting down aircraft. That is it's primary purpose. It's not very good for shooting down ICBMs which is what Russia is concerned about. Obama is considering giving info on the SM-3 to allay their fears and help missile shield negotiations.
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