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Marijuana

How should Marijuana be dealt with?

  • Stricter federal laws must be made, and more money put to enforcing them

    Votes: 7 7.2%

  • Give individual states the right to decide how to go about it

    Votes: 32 33.0%

  • Legalize it through a federal law

    Votes: 42 43.3%

  • Give states the right to decide about it as long as they abide by certain Federal guidelines

    Votes: 16 16.5%
  • Total voters
    97
Re: Marijuna

Can prostitution really be considered a profession? Is dealing drugs a profession as well?
 
Re: Marijuna

Wake said:
Can prostitution really be considered a profession? Is dealing drugs a profession as well?
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You know, there was a time in history when people felt that you couldn't make a profession out of psychology, astrology, or physics.

The answer to your question is yes.
 
Re: Marijuna

tessaesque said:
Why is prostitution different? Decriminalizing it protects women who have chosen to make it their profession. In Nevada, crimes against women who elect to sell sex are drastically lower than crimes against women who prostitute illegally in any other area. Same for prostitutes in Amsterdam. Disease transmission/acquisition rates for women in legalized prostitution (and for customers) is significantly lower than for those who prostitute illegally. There has been no correlation between legalized prostitution and increased infidelity/divorce in the same areas. There has also been no correlation between legalized prostitution and increased single-parent situations, increased teen pregnancy, increased rape, or other crimes. So, again, you have a situation were decriminalization has shown to benefit the whole more than criminalizing the action ever has...so, I see no difference between decriminalizing drugs and decriminalizing the sale of sex.
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Statistics are treacherous things, they need a lot of evaluation and assessment to make sense of them. One can immediately point out large wholes in using these examples. For instance they are quite limited in scope, they are also, in the case of Amsterdam, in a country which is hardly a shining moral beacon for humanity anyway. The conservative should start by considering the social effects; statistics can help, but they are far from a complete guide to such issues. We should look at those involved and the communities in which they take place, but also at their cultural and imaginative setting. Nevada is socially and culturally quite interwoven with the rest of the US, which mitigates the effects of such practices, either way. You also have not attempted to assess the amount of people using these prostitutes, who is using them and the moral effects this has on them, on the prostitutes and on their relations and close associates.

Also prostitution is just a part of a whole cultural and social milieu. Like so called 'gay marriage', we shouldn't suggest that it would end all sexual and social morality, but it would be one more nail in the coffin. The same goes for legalised prostitution in the current. Western contexts.
 
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Re: Marijuna

tessaesque said:
You know, there was a time in history when people felt that you couldn't make a profession out of psychology, astrology, or physics.

The answer to your question is yes.
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So do you also think dealing drugs can be considered a profession?

Maybe soon we'll have ellective classes on how to be a prostitute? Perhaps later they'll begin to unionize?

I don't see prostitution being anywhere near as beneficial as psychology or physics.
 
Re: Marijuna

Wake said:
So do you also think dealing drugs can be considered a profession?

Maybe soon we'll have ellective classes on how to be a prostitute? Perhaps later they'll begin to unionize?

I don't see prostitution being anywhere near as beneficial as psychology or physics.
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People dismissed psychology and physics, too...for centuries.

If drug use is decriminalized there will still be dealers...in most countries it is still illegal to deal. If drug use is legalized we won't have "dealers" anymore...we'll have retail establishments.

Elective classes on prostitution? Stupid strawman. Stripping is perfectly legal but schools don't teach you how to pole dance (private businesses not funded by the government, yes...but schools, no). We don't teach how to screw; hell, we don't even teach how to be safe when we decide to screw. And I doubt that'll ever change.

But honestly, if you need a class to learn how to let a guy stick his stick inside of you then you shouldn't be considering prostitution in the first place.

Unionizing would be fine, though I can't personally stand unions.
 
Re: Marijuna

tessaesque said:
People dismissed psychology and physics, too...for centuries.

If drug use is decriminalized there will still be dealers...in most countries it is still illegal to deal. If drug use is legalized we won't have "dealers" anymore...we'll have retail establishments.

Elective classes on prostitution? Stupid strawman. Stripping is perfectly legal but schools don't teach you how to pole dance (private businesses not funded by the government, yes...but schools, no). We don't teach how to screw; hell, we don't even teach how to be safe when we decide to screw. And I doubt that'll ever change.

But honestly, if you need a class to learn how to let a guy stick his stick inside of you then you shouldn't be considering prostitution in the first place.

Unionizing would be fine, though I can't personally stand unions.
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However, psychology and physics are of far more benefit to society than prostituting your body.

To be blunt, the ellective part was in jest. I just want to peer into the future and see what humanity's stupidity has in store for us.

I would think that if drugs became legal, as in all drugs, why would it still remain illegal to deal? If it were to remain legal, I wonder if it would be considered a profession.

What other incentives can we tie to prostitution, I wonder, besides unionizing? Perhaps health insurance through work? Would they pay taxes? What else, I wonder? Should they get worker's comp?
 
Re: Marijuna

tessaesque said:
People dismissed psychology and physics, too...for centuries.
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When?

People still do, rightly, dismiss a lot of the more colonial aspects of psychology. I wouldn't think very highly of someone who actually took Freud or B.F Skinner seriously.
 
Re: Marijuna

Wessexman said:
Who said anything about inhibited? It really depends on how you use the word inhibited. I think they should control their sexual desires and make the lower, more animal aspects parts of them accord with and be held in place by the higher more fully human aspects. In this sense I want people to be sexually inhibited. But I do think that the more physical and animal aspects can and often should be a part of healthy human sexuality, they simply shouldn't be pursued in isolation and allowed to usurp the place of the higher aspects of man. In this sense I do not support sexual inhibitions.

I think good character is about being more fully human. So it includes having self-control and restraint. Drinking to excess in any repetitive and sustained way is a mark of less perfect character as you are not controlling your desires for what is, on its own, a pleasure that is beneath the full social, cultural, creative, moral, intellectual and spiritual potential of man. The same goes for the over indulgence in the physical and lower aspects of sexuality in isolation from the rest of proper, human sexuality.
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Unless someone's sexual behavior poses a health risk or is non consentual, I do not think that the government should interfere. Your idea of "good character" should not be law.


Also: http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...ing-pot-doesnt-hurt-lung-capacity-study-shows
 
Re: Marijuna

evanescence said:
Unless someone's sexual behavior poses a health risk or is non consentual, I do not think that the government should interfere. Your idea of "good character" should not be law.


Also: Vitals - Smoking pot doesn't hurt lung capacity, study shows
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What if, say, STDS and AIDS/HIV are transmitted at an even faster rate? Many men don't go to prostitutes because it's illegal, yet if it becomes legal then more will contribute to the problem.
 
Re: Marijuna

Wake said:
What if, say, STDS and AIDS/HIV are transmitted at an even faster rate? Many men don't go to prostitutes because it's illegal, yet if it becomes legal then more will contribute to the problem.
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It's not. If prostitution were legal, there would be less STDs.
 
Re: Marijuna

evanescence said:
Unless someone's sexual behavior poses a health risk or is non consentual, I do not think that the government should interfere. Your idea of "good character" should not be law.
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Actually I think society is directly about trying to allow men to be fully human. This is what freedom is in reality and I don't see why, in some contexts, the government, at whichever level, cannot make certain vices harder to engage in. This is not making people moral, just creating more obstacles to being immoral. Though I certainly agree the state cannot do this for all vices or aspects of them and a lot has to do with context. Prostitution is currently illegal and conventionally it has been considered very much illegitimate and immoral. There are growing sectors of the population who, wrongly, see nothing wrong about it. In such a context it sends very bad signs legalise it.
 
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Re: Marijuna

Tigger said:
Oh it had everything to do with them burning down the building. More importantly it had everything to do with them FAILING TO REPORT THE FIRE THAT THEY HAD STARTED. A FAILURE THAT ENDED UP GETTING 6 GOOD MEN KILLED. It would have been better if their worthless asses had roasted inside that building, instead.

My point, and the point I will always make in regards to this topic is that like alcohol, the use of marijuana places an individual in an altered mental state where they are no longer capable of making good, proper, and right decisions on a moments notice. THAT in and of itself should be enough to get the plant eradicated from the entire planet. That is also why the mere possession of the product should lead to an immediate death sentence, without trial. There is NO worthwhile medicinal or narcotic use for the plant. IF a version were capable of being produced that could make hemp without any chance of being converted back into a form that could be smoked, I'd be for allowing that. Otherwise, wipe it and all of its users off this planet and we'll be better off so far as I'm concerned.
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Sorry man. Not gonna happen.

Its a WEED! GROWS EVERYWHERE. All by itself.

One of the oldest plants we have a relationship with, actually. (Yes, the psychoactive part too).

We have specific neuro-receptors for it, so at the least we have identified another source for one of our brain chemicals, or maybe even evolved them AFTER beginning our relationship with the plant.

You REALLY need a hug.

NOBODY wants to live in your world.

(Except OTHER people who really need a hug)
 
Re: Marijuna

Wessexman said:
When?

People still do, rightly, dismiss a lot of the more colonial aspects of psychology. I wouldn't think very highly of someone who actually took Freud or B.F Skinner seriously.
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Freud was bat **** insane, but if not for his (and Skinner's) revolutionary theories we wouldn't have the more sound aspects of modern psychology at this point in time. They started a machine that's been plugging along for centuries. To not take them seriously is to negate the very basis for modern psychological thought.
 
Re: Marijuna

tessaesque said:
Freud was bat **** insane, but if not for his (and Skinner's) revolutionary theories we wouldn't have the more sound aspects of modern psychology at this point in time. They started a machine that's been plugging along for centuries. To not take them seriously is to negate the very basis for modern psychological thought.
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Exactly how sound that modern psychology is though is debatable. Not many people reject what has been shown to be repeatedly observed or how drugs work. But a sensible person should take extreme caution when it comes to modern psychology and make sure you do not fall into the minefield of assumptions, ideology and dubious philosophy that surrounds and builds on what is simple observation. Someone like B.F Skinner and the behaviourists are not an anomaly, their sort of scientistic, overreaching nonsense is encouraged by modern psychology. I would not trust psychologists when it came to any of the important questions about human mind and consciousness. Though I would trust them, with some reservations, on what the symptoms are certain disorders are or the effects of a particular drug.
 
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Re: Marijuna

I just want to throw in here the idea that "morals" are largely artificial constructs.

In regards to.sexuality, there are two mammal specjes where the female is contantly sexually receptive. Us and Bonobo chimps.

You should look Bonobos up yourself. Because you'd never believe me if I told you.

Human behavior patterns and primate behavior patterns are remarkably similar.

"Monkey Games" are at the heart of every news broadcast.

And from my understanding, monogamy became a social norm when the most successful males taking all the women for themselves simply didn't work out.
 
Re: Marijuna

I was always told by one idiot or another that smoking a doobie screwed your lungs up as much as 17 cigarettes.

Seems to be not so. Doesn't seem to damage the lungs much at all like cigarettes do. In fact, studies show it made them stronger in some cases. Whoda thunk?

Vitals - Smoking pot doesn't hurt lung capacity, study shows
 
Re: Marijuna

Wessexman said:
Actually I think society is directly about trying to allow men to be fully human. This is what freedom is in reality and I don't see why, in some contexts, the government, at whichever level, cannot make certain vices harder to engage in. This is not making people moral, just creating more obstacles to being immoral. Though I certainly agree the state cannot do this for all vices or aspects of them and a lot has to do with context. Prostitution is currently illegal and conventionally it has been considered very much illegitimate and immoral. There are growing sectors of the population who, wrongly, see nothing wrong about it. In such a context it sends very bad signs legalise it.
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Logically, if drugs and prostitution were legal, both would be safer. Isn't that more important than other considerations?
 
Re: Marijuna

evanescence said:
Logically, if drugs and prostitution were legal, both would be safer. Isn't that more important than other considerations?
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Quite true, more harm is done as a result of prohibition than what harm is done by the prohibited act/substances themselves.

Ending prohibition whether it be drugs or prostitution is not just a matter of personal freedom, but also a matter of harm reduction.
 
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Re: Marijuna

Poison Ivy is more dangerous than cannabis.
 
Re: Marijuna

evanescence said:
It's not. If prostitution were legal, there would be less STDs.
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And what basis do you have for this?

If most roaches don't crawl onto the floor from the shadows when the light is out, what happens when you turn the light off? More roaches emerge.
 
Re: Marijuna

Wake said:
And what basis do you have for this?

If most roaches don't crawl onto the floor from the shadows when the light is out, what happens when you turn the light off? More roaches emerge.
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The basis for that statement is record of fact from areas where prostitution is legal. STD rates amongst prostitutes and their customers (and therefore anybody else that customer does the hanky panky with) are significantly lower when prostitution is legal than when it is not.
 
Re: Marijuna

Wake said:
And what basis do you have for this?

If most roaches don't crawl onto the floor from the shadows when the light is out, what happens when you turn the light off? More roaches emerge.
Click to expand...

Roaches in a marijuana thread?

 
Re: Marijuna

tessaesque said:
The basis for that statement is record of fact from areas where prostitution is legal. STD rates amongst prostitutes and their customers (and therefore anybody else that customer does the hanky panky with) are significantly lower when prostitution is legal than when it is not.
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How exactly is that?

Question: If murder was made legal, would that as well drop the rate in murder?

The logic is that making it legal decreases the occurence, so wouldn't that work for theives and murderers and other currently illegal things as well?
 
Re: Marijuna

Wake said:
How exactly is that?

Question: If murder was made legal, would that as well drop the rate in murder?

The logic is that making it legal decreases the occurence, so wouldn't that work for theives and murderers and other currently illegal things as well?
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Your analogy fails. Marijuana and prostitution are victimless crimes unlike theft and murder.
 
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