View Poll Results: How should Marijuana be dealt with?

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  • Stricter federal laws must be made, and more money put to enforcing them

    13 10.83%
  • Give individual states the right to decide how to go about it

    39 32.50%
  • Legalize it through a federal law

    52 43.33%
  • Give states the right to decide about it as long as they abide by certain Federal guidelines

    16 13.33%
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Thread: Marijuana

  1. #41
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No, there isn't. They're still choices made by a disordered mind that is trying to destroy itself.

    Yes, addicts are capable of moments of clarity, like people with any other mental illness are. But fixing that doesn't happen overnight. Not for addiction problems, and not for other mental health issues.

    Addiction has nothing to do with character or morality. I have known some very good people with substance abuse problems. People so good that they were still lambs even in the depth of their addiction - and that takes some serious character. They were in a lot of pain.

    I don't believe they're victims of anything unless they're dead. Until that point, they're fighting just by continuing to get through the days. And they are in all-out war when they decide to recover. I find that admirable and humbling.

    As I said, mentally ill people are capable of moments of clarity. Sometimes even extended awareness. That doesn't change the seriousness of the disorder they fight. Acknowledging it as the disorder that it is does not negate their agency. It is just an extreme challenge to it. And that challenge deserves to be acknowledged, rather than writing it off as them being bad or flawed people. That sort of mentality and treatment is what really wrecks people, not their disorder.
    You appear to be implying something that seems improbable; that addiction totally robs you of your ability to think in any sane or reasonable way, except for occasional moments of clarity. I do not believe an addict is insane; I do not believe that, except for the height of intoxication, they are totally divorced from reality.

    It is hard to tell, but when you talk about it not being about morality and character and give examples of the good people who may be addicts, you are implying that morality and character do not include temperance, prudence and self-control. Morality and character are about more than sympathy for others; the fully moral person is not simply so because they are nice to their fellow man. They are also have restraint and self-control.

    I would say that the attitude that all these things are just mental illnesses is not a good one for prospective addicts, because it helps to undermine the importance of self-control and temperance. When we remove the importance of will and character we remove the onus on improving them. It is debatable whether or not individuals addicts are more helped by treating them as victims or the way I have talking about, and lets remember I'm not talking about just acting as if they could stop their addiction at whim or anything extreme and one-dimensional like that. But the general deleterious effect of your approach seems less debatable.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-06-12 at 10:50 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Marijuna

    If that's what you got out of my post, you didn't read it for comprehension and aren't worth responding to.

    I quite directly rejected that addiction completely robs one of their ability to think, or that they should be treated as victims.

  3. #43
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    Re: Marijuna

    It should be legalized, period.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post

    I quite directly rejected that addiction completely robs one of their ability to think,
    I find it hard to read some of your comments any other way. You toned it down in your last post but it still had comments like;

    They're still choices made by a disordered mind that is trying to destroy itself.

    Yes, addicts are capable of moments of clarity, like people with any other mental illness are.


    As I said, mentally ill people are capable of moments of clarity. Sometimes even extended awareness.

    One talks about moments of lucidity or clarity in dementia sufferers, for instance. I think it, and the first comment, can be fairly perceived as talking about a certain loss of touch with reality. I do not think this is the case with addicts, excepting the heights of intoxication and additional problems they may have.

    On the victim comment, you simply said you don't define them as victims unless they die from it. I do not necessarily share that definition of a victim.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-06-12 at 11:07 PM.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Marijuna

    There is a problem in this poll's options, by the way. It doesn't properly define what it means by legalise it through federal law. Does it mean just remove the federal laws against marijuana or does it mean a law that legalises it and overrides all state and local laws on the issue? Because if it means the former then it is the same as the second option. If it means the latter then surely this would be unconstitutional and part of a broader discussion.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-06-12 at 11:22 PM.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Marijuna

    Nowhere in the Constitution is the federal government given any authority whatsoever regarding marijuana. Therefore, per the Tenth Amendment, this is a matter for the states. If one state wishes to legalize it, then that state has that authority, and the federal government has no authority to interfere.* Likewise, if another state wants to criminalize it, with severe penalties for its possession and use, then again, this is that state's right, and the federal government has no authority to interfere.

    If we want to make it legal or illegal under federal law, then the only legitimate way to do this is to amend the Constitution, as was done with the Eighteenth Amendment in 1919 regarding alcohol.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Nowhere in the Constitution is the federal government given any authority whatsoever regarding marijuana. Therefore, per the Tenth Amendment, this is a matter for the states. If one state wishes to legalize it, then that state has that authority, and the federal government has no authority to interfere.* Likewise, if another state wants to criminalize it, with severe penalties for its possession and use, then again, this is that state's right, and the federal government has no authority to interfere.

    If we want to make it legal or illegal under federal law, then the only legitimate way to do this is to amend the Constitution, as was done with the Eighteenth Amendment in 1919 regarding alcohol.
    Unless some judge decides that this clause;

    No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years,

    Means that the Federal government can ban marijuana, long skirts and ice tea.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #48
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    How should the government deal with it? As of now they pour lots of money into enforcing laws against it, and the use of it is still widespread.
    My vote is none of the above.

    It is none of the government's business at any level.

    Tell the UN to go to hell.
    Last edited by Muhammed; 01-07-12 at 05:09 AM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I'd ban using it in public though. No-one wants a second-hand buzz in a restaurant.
    This is why not only treating it to the equivalent of alcohol is a good idea but treating it to he equivalent of cigarettes as well. Many states do not allow smoking in restaurants.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Marijuna

    Decriminalize it. If it were legalized, it would be heavily taxed. And more expensive.
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