View Poll Results: How should Marijuana be dealt with?

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  • Stricter federal laws must be made, and more money put to enforcing them

    13 10.83%
  • Give individual states the right to decide how to go about it

    39 32.50%
  • Legalize it through a federal law

    52 43.33%
  • Give states the right to decide about it as long as they abide by certain Federal guidelines

    16 13.33%
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Thread: Marijuana

  1. #31
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    These people are a distinct issue, aren't they. They cannot be used to pretend addiction, in itself and in general, is the same sort of problem as most other mental illnesses. As I added to my last post, I admit that we shouldn't view addiction simply as a clear choice, implying the addict can easily stop when they want. But that doesn't mean the addict is simply a victim of a mental condition whose only choice is to acknowledge this and seek treatment. He is someone who has decided he enjoys intoxication and, the great pressures to take drugs and to keep taking them, which I fully acknowledge, notwithstanding, continues to decide he would rather be intoxicated than live a proper, human life.
    Ya know, I've known a few people who struggled with chemical addiction problems - drugs and alcohol both.

    I can't say that a single one of them ever found anything enjoyable about being intoxicated. Not one.

    The best any of them have said is that it's less painful than being sober.

    I don't think you have a lot of familiarity on this subject.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 01-06-12 at 10:04 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I had always thought that a real drug addict takes drugs to feel normal....to avoid withdrawal. I'm not sure it's all about continuing to decide one would rather be intoxicated than live a proper human life. (Maybe that's just some drugs...)
    It depends on the drug. Some drugs are chemically addictive and without dosing they will go through terrible withdrawal symptoms (many have to be hospitalized). They still get a high and do it for a high, but they also take drugs to avoid the withdrawal.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    That is why you can choose to go one that doesn't allow it. It isn't up to the customer to force the owner through the power of the law.
    What's the point of democracy if you can't suppress things you dislike?
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  4. #34
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Ya know, I've known a few people who struggled with chemical addiction problems - drugs and alcohol both.

    I can't say that a single one of them ever found anything enjoyable about being intoxicated. Not one.

    The best any of them have said is that it's less painful than being sober.

    I don't think you have a lot of familiarity on this subject.
    I had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol for a while. So did a lot of those I know and some had unhealthy relationships with, or even addiction to, marijuana. I haven't know a lot of heroin addicts or anything, but I wouldn't say I had no familiarity with the issue. I'm not sure how your reply really refutes what I said. At all times I acknowledged the complexity of the issue, including the problems of recovery when you are a long term addict. It doesn't remove the aspect of choice though.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-06-12 at 10:12 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #35
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    What's the point of democracy if you can't suppress things you dislike?
    To provide employment to the otherwise unemployable? Ask Senator Hanson-Young.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  6. #36
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol for a while. So did a lot of those I know and some had unhealthy relationships with, or even addiction to, marijuana. I haven't know a lot of heroin addicts or anything, but I wouldn't say I had no familiarity with the issue. I'm not sure how your reply really refutes what I said. At all times I acknowledged the complexity of the issue, including the problems recovery when you are a long term addict. It doesn't remove the aspect of choice though.
    An anorexic chooses to starve. A depressed person chooses to commit suicide. A schizophrenic chooses to hurt themselves. A sever autistic chooses to bang their head into walls.

    But what sort of condition must their mind be in to make those choices?

    No mentally healthy person would ever choose to do those things. Our survival instincts compel us to preserve and nurture ourselves.

    The mind of a mentally ill person compels them to do the exact opposite.

    What does it matter if it's their choice if the mind making those choices is sick?

  7. #37
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    An anorexic chooses to starve. A depressed person chooses to commit suicide. A schizophrenic chooses to hurt themselves. A sever autistic chooses to bang their head into walls.

    But what sort of condition must their mind be in to make those choices?

    No mentally healthy person would ever choose to do those things. Our survival instincts compel us to preserve and nurture ourselves.

    The mind of a mentally ill person compels them to do the exact opposite.

    What does it matter if it's their choice is the mind making those choices is sick?
    As I said you know there is a difference between the choices involved in such cases, like acknowledging you have depression, seeking help and perhaps having the internal strength to keep going, and addiction. Addiction is partly an issue of character and morality. It is not something where you are just a victim of a mental condition. I do acknowledge that this doesn't mean it is just a character issue though, or by any means an easy battle. The risk though is trying to totally remove man's freedom and dignity by always trying to diagnose him, even when, like in this case, there are serious flaws in such a way of looking at the issue.

    Where does it stop? Is there choice left from your viewpoint or is every vice to be explained as a mental disorder?
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-06-12 at 10:19 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #38
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    Re: Marijuna

    I'm not a user, but in those I know who use, I do not see the "gateway" to other drugs that was the big scare tactic used by the feds for years. In my humble opin, long term THC use definately makes people paranoid (OMG, move over Jesse Ventura). But, it's a good thing that should be allowed for people going through chemo. Medical use (with a card) is allowed in Oregon. I used to work a chemical dependency program, so I know a bit about it.
    "The measure off intelligence is the ability to change." Albert Einstein

  9. #39
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    To provide employment to the otherwise unemployable? Ask Senator Hanson-Young.
    I'd prefer not to, I make it a point not to talk to Greens.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  10. #40
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    As I said you know there is a difference between the choices involved in such cases, like acknowledging you have depression, seeking help and perhaps having the internal strength to keep going, and addiction. Addiction is partly an issue of character and morality. It is not something where you are just a victim of a mental condition. I do acknowledge that this doesn't mean it is just a character issue though, or by any means an easy battle. The risk though is trying to totally remove man's freedom and dignity by always trying to diagnose him, even when, like in this case, there are serious flaws in such a way of looking at the issue.

    Where does it stop? Is there choice left from your viewpoint or is every vice to be explained as a mental disorder?
    No, there isn't. They're still choices made by a disordered mind that is trying to destroy itself.

    Yes, addicts are capable of moments of clarity, like people with any other mental illness are. But fixing that doesn't happen overnight. Not for addiction problems, and not for other mental health issues.

    Addiction has nothing to do with character or morality. I have known some very good people with substance abuse problems. People so good that they were still lambs even in the depth of their addiction - and that takes some serious character. They were in a lot of pain.

    I don't believe they're victims of anything unless they're dead. Until that point, they're fighting just by continuing to get through the days. And they are in all-out war when they decide to recover. I find that admirable and humbling.

    As I said, mentally ill people are capable of moments of clarity. Sometimes even extended awareness. That doesn't change the seriousness of the disorder they fight. Acknowledging it as the disorder that it is does not negate their agency. It is just an extreme challenge to it. And that challenge deserves to be acknowledged, rather than writing it off as them being bad or flawed people. That sort of mentality and treatment is what really wrecks people, not their disorder.

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