View Poll Results: How should Marijuana be dealt with?

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  • Stricter federal laws must be made, and more money put to enforcing them

    13 10.83%
  • Give individual states the right to decide how to go about it

    39 32.50%
  • Legalize it through a federal law

    52 43.33%
  • Give states the right to decide about it as long as they abide by certain Federal guidelines

    16 13.33%
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Thread: Marijuana

  1. #351
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Yes. Non violent.

    The vast majority of violence associated with drugs exists because drugs are illegal. It's supply and demand just like everything else. If the legal market cannot provide, then the black market steps in. This unregulated market controlled by gangs is the source of almost all drug related violence. Legalize it.
    Your post here didn't at all speak to what I wrote.

    You bemoaned locking drug dealers up and you gave as your alluded reason for so bemoaning that if a drug dealer is non-violent and a citizen then they should not be punished for dealing drugs.

    I then pointed out that just because someone behaves non-violently and is a citizen does not mean their behavior isn't severely damaging and that when said severely damaging behavior is understandably illegal, the fact that they may have engaged in that behavior non-violently and as a citizen does in no way excuse them of their crime or the time they must serve.

    But here you stray from defending your point, instead diverting to something else entirely.

    I challenge you to defend your point to which I initially responded.

    I also challenge you to read the OP of the link I previously referenced (Street Pot Is Irrefutably Deadly) and tell me what you think.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  2. #352
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Your post here didn't at all speak to what I wrote.

    You bemoaned locking drug dealers up and you gave as your alluded reason for so bemoaning that if a drug dealer is non-violent and a citizen then they should not be punished for dealing drugs.

    I then pointed out that just because someone behaves non-violently and is a citizen does not mean their behavior isn't severely damaging and that when said severely damaging behavior is understandably illegal, the fact that they may have engaged in that behavior non-violently and as a citizen does in no way excuse them of their crime or the time they must serve.

    But here you stray from defending your point, instead diverting to something else entirely.

    I challenge you to defend your point to which I initially responded.

    I also challenge you to read the OP of the link I previously referenced (Street Pot Is Irrefutably Deadly) and tell me what you think.
    Can you please explain to me how a law against drugs can decrease those negative externalities.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  3. #353
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Can you please explain to me how a law against drugs can decrease those negative externalities.
    Again, you divert from the point.

    Your choice not to defend your position, your position being that non-violent citizens don't commit incarceration-worthy crimes simply because their behavior was non-violent and they were citizens, means that you've conceded the argument, admitting your error in making such a ludicrous point.

    As to your new question here, I'm not interested in discussing your irrelevant diversion.

    However, if you wish to comment on the very comprehensively relevant OP here: Street Pot Is Irrefutably Deadly .. I might be intersted in discussing your opinion of it.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  4. #354
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    Re: Marijuna

    “Now here's somebody who wants to smoke a marijuana cigarette. If he's caught, he goes to jail. Now is that moral? Is that proper? I think it's absolutely disgraceful that our government, supposed to be our government, should be in the position of converting people who are not harming others into criminals, of destroying their lives, putting them in jail. That's the issue to me. The economic issue comes in only for explaining why it has those effects. But the economic reasons are not the reasons”
    ― Milton Friedman


    “It is because it's prohibited. See, if you look at the drug war from a purely economic point of view, the role of the government is to protect the drug cartel. That's literally true.”
    ― Milton Friedman


    “This plea comes from the bottom of my heart. Every friend of freedom, and I know you are one, must be as revolted as I am by the prospect of turning the United States into an armed camp, by the vision of jails filled with casual drug users and of an army of enforcers empowered to invade the liberty of citizens on slight evidence. A country in which shooting down unidentified planes "on suspicion" can be seriously considered as a drug-war tactic is not the kind of United States that either you or I want to hand on to future generations.”
    ― Milton Friedman
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  5. #355
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Again, you divert from the point.

    Your choice not to defend your position, your position being that non-violent citizens don't commit incarceration-worthy crimes simply because their behavior was non-violent and they were citizens, means that you've conceded the argument, admitting your error in making such a ludicrous point.

    As to your new question here, I'm not interested in discussing your irrelevant diversion.

    However, if you wish to comment on the very comprehensively relevant OP here: Street Pot Is Irrefutably Deadly .. I might be intersted in discussing your opinion of it.
    Not sure how a link to another forum supports anything you have claimed in this thread. I am asking you a relevant question. If you do not wish to engage in further discussion on this topic, I'm fine with that. However, the burden of proof is on you to show that society should dedicate yet more resources to this never ending war. Prohibition was a huge failure. The billions wasted on this war far outweighs the negative externalities caused by the drugs themselves. The entire premise is illogical and counter productive for the cause of liberty.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  6. #356
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Not sure how a link to another forum supports anything you have claimed in this thread.
    It doesn't. But that's irrelevant.

    The only claim I made is that your previous point that non-violent citizens don't commit incarceration-worthy crimes was absolutely ludicrous.

    That the link I referenced doesn't support (or negate, either) my previous point is meaningless.

    After I squashed your point, I then moved on, simply offerring up something new on the topic to stimulate conversation.

    You, however, keep wanting to bury a dead horse.

    To which I say .. nay.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    I am asking you a relevant question.
    I don't have an opinion framed in the terms you present. So I have no answer for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    If you do not wish to engage in further discussion on this topic,
    Just because I don't want to succumb to a meaningless tired old same thing kind of digression, doesn't mean I'm not interested in further discussion. It just means what you're asking is meaningless in light of bigger more foundational realities on the topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    I'm fine with that.
    I'm not sure that's really true.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    However, the burden of proof is on you to show that society should dedicate yet more resources to this never ending war.
    No it's not. Again, I haven't stated either way on the divertive and tired old question you broached, so your jump-to-conclusion about me having to show some "burden of proof" to your question is, of course, obviously, wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Prohibition was a huge failure.
    Whatever.

    Not sure you understand why, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    The billions wasted on this war far outweighs the negative externalities caused by the drugs themselves.
    So it sounds like you're saying that the economic benefits to legalizing drugs outweighs the damage drugs have done and continue to do to scores of millions.

    Okay, that's your opinion -- I'm not interested in debating that with you.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    The entire premise is illogical and counter productive for the cause of liberty.
    You're quite the idealist.

    Ever consider removing those rose-colored glasses?

    ***


    Again, the OP in this thread is pretty darn convincing about the deadliness of pot and why we can't trust those opposed to the drug war to be telling us any truth in the matter whatsoever: Street Pot Is Irrefutably Deadly.

    You know, you can run from the truth of this here, if you want ..

    .. Or I can post a brand new thread leading off with a full quote of this OP.

    It's your choice, for the moment.

    I really think this link's OP is something new on the topic, in that it appears to be a comprehesive winning argument about which there is no rational refutation.

    Considering that this topic has been to death with the same old, same old, wouldn't it be nice to pivot discussion off of something completely new and accurate on the matter?

    I would think so.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  7. #357
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    It doesn't. But that's irrelevant.

    The only claim I made is that your previous point that non-violent citizens don't commit incarceration-worthy crimes was absolutely ludicrous.

    That the link I referenced doesn't support (or negate, either) my previous point is meaningless.

    After I squashed your point, I then moved on, simply offerring up something new on the topic to stimulate conversation.

    You, however, keep wanting to bury a dead horse.

    To which I say .. nay.



    I don't have an opinion framed in the terms you present. So I have no answer for you.



    Just because I don't want to succumb to a meaningless tired old same thing kind of digression, doesn't mean I'm not interested in further discussion. It just means what you're asking is meaningless in light of bigger more foundational realities on the topic.



    I'm not sure that's really true.



    No it's not. Again, I haven't stated either way on the divertive and tired old question you broached, so your jump-to-conclusion about me having to show some "burden of proof" to your question is, of course, obviously, wrong.



    Whatever.

    Not sure you understand why, though.



    So it sounds like you're saying that the economic benefits to legalizing drugs outweighs the damage drugs have done and continue to do to scores of millions.

    Okay, that's your opinion -- I'm not interested in debating that with you.



    You're quite the idealist.

    Ever consider removing those rose-colored glasses?

    ***


    Again, the OP in this thread is pretty darn convincing about the deadliness of pot and why we can't trust those opposed to the drug war to be telling us any truth in the matter whatsoever: Street Pot Is Irrefutably Deadly.

    You know, you can run from the truth of this here, if you want ..

    .. Or I can post a brand new thread leading off with a full quote of this OP.

    It's your choice, for the moment.

    I really think this link's OP is something new on the topic, in that it appears to be a comprehesive winning argument about which there is no rational refutation.

    Considering that this topic has been to death with the same old, same old, wouldn't it be nice to pivot discussion off of something completely new and accurate on the matter?

    I would think so.
    My questions about the negative externalities caused by our current drug laws are extremely relative to this topic, and I'm not quite sure why you will not address this. I suppose then, that there is nothing left for us to discuss, and I understand your hesitation to engage in that particular topic. Facts would not support your position. Have a nice evening.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  8. #358
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    Re: Marijuna

    The continued criminalization of drug use is more akin to the Salem witch trials than it is some perverse warping of common sense. That this thread is still growing is a testament to the stupidity of busy-body mankind to have to have a boogieman to get through their day.

    It should be against the law to legislate against personal choice for personal pleasure. But stupid is forever, and so we suffer.

    BTW, drugs suck. But restrictions on personal liberty suck worse.

  9. #359
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    My questions about the negative externalities caused by our current drug laws are extremely relative to this topic, and I'm not quite sure why you will not address this. I suppose then, that there is nothing left for us to discuss, and I understand your hesitation to engage in that particular topic. Facts would not support your position. Have a nice evening.
    Avoidance via projection.

    Yep .. same old, same old from the legalize pot crowd ..

    .. When faced with the truth of the matter: Street Pot Is Irrefutably Deadly.

    So, Ev has bailed.

    Anyone else care to take a stab at something new?
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  10. #360
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    ...... When faced with the truth of the matter: Street Pot Is Irrefutably Deadly...........
    So what ? Who is forcing you to smoke pot when you do not want to ?

    Care to take a stab at why anyone should restrict the personal freedom of another who is infringing on no one else ?
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 01-15-12 at 10:31 PM.

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