View Poll Results: How should Marijuana be dealt with?

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  • Stricter federal laws must be made, and more money put to enforcing them

    13 10.83%
  • Give individual states the right to decide how to go about it

    39 32.50%
  • Legalize it through a federal law

    52 43.33%
  • Give states the right to decide about it as long as they abide by certain Federal guidelines

    16 13.33%
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Thread: Marijuana

  1. #241
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    That makes you a card-carrying, Marx-reading, Rosenberg-defending, nuclear-spying, Cold-War-loving COMMIE!!!!!!
    Oh noes!! McCarthy's zombie will surely come for me!!
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  2. #242
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    But it was rarely accepted.

    Well now you are simply trying to replace restrictive, personal morality with some sort of collective morality based on standards of living. This is just as much legislating morality as any other attempt to do so. It also ignores the importance of personal morality, of self-control, prudence and temperance and such virtues. These are surely very important, even to the health of society. To think that you can make a healthy society just by encouraging a sentimental concern with collective standards of living seems terribly misguided. You need at least a basic amount of self-control and temperance among the individuals who make up society.

    Prostitution is wrong because it encourages the worst in man, the cheapening of one of his most important relationships and aspects to a business exchange and to its most animal and least human aspects.
    You are putting far to much value in an act. Sex is as basic as breathing or eating. It's a bodily function. You're making the act of sex into something that it's not. Having sex with a random person for money or not doesn't have the effect you think it does. In societies where sexual liberation is tolerated, there is less violence. In violent societies, there is more repression. That is a fact.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  3. #243
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Trying to put a political classification into a box is ridiculous. The parties have changed and realigned themselves continuously throughout history. There are many aspects of modern "conservatism" and those who cling desperately to such a limited piece of it as an example of why they're the best type of conservative are part of the reason we have such a problem staying on message, and part of the reason I no longer classify myself.

    I don't have to meet your ideal of conservatism to qualify for the classification. Nor do you have to meet mine. But failing to understand that yours isn't the only (and probably not even the best) division of conservatism is paramount to moving forward as a collective group.

    Then again, some of us realize that archaic and outdated rules designed to restrict society to fit into our own self righteous definition of acceptable go against the very rights and ideals that conservatives have historically (and hypocritically) held in such high regard.
    I realise there are plenty of ways conservatism has changed. On the other hand it is hard for me to understand a conservatism that doesn't recognise man as a social, cultural and imaginative animal and simply views him as the same atomistic and antisocial way as any classical or modern liberal. I can understand you taking a different position on prohibition, though I didn't really have you in my Tessa, I do not believe in alcohol or marijuana prohibition, but I cannot understand you doing so for reasons that are very unconservative and seem identical to the staunchest social liberals on the board.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #244
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    apologies
    i missed anything resembling rational in your post
    so, let's take a look at the balance of this one


    it are. will let's have it


    it are?
    someone needs to let you know that it is not illegal to drink. guess i just did that
    this is your comparable example? notice why i detect a void in your responses when it comes to finding them rational


    houston, we have a problem
    it now seems you knew that drinking was legal but used it as an illustration of a victimless crime. it is clear you have no knowledge about what you are posting


    hold on
    you just went thru this diatribe about why drinking inflicts all of these assorted ills on society and then you say it is not awful enough to make illegal ... but you use this as an example to keep marijuana consumption illegal
    notice any rationality there? me either


    so, you trot out drinking as being a victimless crime which has awful consequences but is something you would continue to keep legal as an example why marijuana deserves to remain an illegal substance
    if that is what one must believe to be identified as not a moron, then i will want to be thrown in with the morons ... in your world they are apparently the folks who can think rationally
    I can't make heads nor tails of your mess of a post here. That fact I'd keep alcohol legal doesn't mean I do not recognise the problems with it. You see some of us can recognise complexities in situations and do not have to rely on the most simplistic analysis alone.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #245
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I realise there are plenty of ways conservatism has changed. On the other hand it is hard for me to understand a conservatism that doesn't recognise man as a social, cultural and imaginative animal and simply views him as the same atomistic and antisocial way as any classical or modern liberal. I can understand you taking a different position on prohibition, though I didn't really have you in my Tessa, I do not believe in alcohol or marijuana prohibition, but I cannot understand you doing so for reasons that are very unconservative and seem identical to the staunchest social liberals on the board.
    I support decriminalization because all instances of decriminalization in other countries has proven to benefit the whole far more than criminalization every has. That's a simple, logical, incredibly important reason. And I hardly think that the ideologies involved in that conclusion are either liberal or conservative...they're just practical.

    If one action is more beneficial than another, perform the more beneficial one. Standing on principle is one thing; standing on principle to the very real detriment of society on the basis of arbitrary morals designed without any supporting evidence is another thing entirely.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  6. #246
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    You are putting far to much value in an act. Sex is as basic as breathing or eating. It's a bodily function. You're making the act of sex into something that it's not. Having sex with a random person for money or not doesn't have the effect you think it does. In societies where sexual liberation is tolerated, there is less violence. In violent societies, there is more repression. That is a fact.
    I disagree. Eating becomes a problem if we become gluttons and disengage it from our the rest of our humanity. The same goes at least as much for sex. There are legitimate, animal aspects to it, as there are animal aspects to a lot of the aspects of man. But man is a hierarchy, with his fully human, intellectual faculties at the top. If you start engaging in sexual activity which is mostly aimed at satisfy our lower, baser and more animal desires alone this is bound to create an imbalance in the internal hierarchy of the individual. Sex is an act and acts matter, particularly one so intimate and humanly important as sex. I have no doubt there are men who can have sex with a prostitute in relatively tender and intimate way, particularly if they do it rarely, but most of them do not. In our society this sort of thing is the last thing we should be encouraging.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #247
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I support decriminalization because all instances of decriminalization in other countries has proven to benefit the whole far more than criminalization every has. That's a simple, logical, incredibly important reason. And I hardly think that the ideologies involved in that conclusion are either liberal or conservative...they're just practical.

    If one action is more beneficial than another, perform the more beneficial one. Standing on principle is one thing; standing on principle to the very real detriment of society on the basis of arbitrary morals designed without any supporting evidence is another thing entirely.
    Yes, but for me as a traditional conservative I cannot help thinking about society, culture and imagination before I make a decision. For me these are not superficial and unimportant, but the very basic of most people's lives, regulating and even to a degree forming them and giving them meaning. We have to be careful with drugs in our society. We have done away with restraint and self-control and ways to get high using an artificial substance like MDMA or heroin are going to make matters worse. But marijuana, like alcohol, can be used in such a way that it is not the central or single part of an experience. One can hardly have an ecstasy pill over a working lunch, whereas one can have a glass of wine. For this and various other reasons I see no reason for it to be prohibited.

    Prostitution is different though.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #248
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I disagree. Eating becomes a problem if we become gluttons and disengage it from our the rest of our humanity. The same goes at least as much for sex. There are legitimate, animal aspects to it, as there are animal aspects to a lot of the aspects of man. But man is a hierarchy, with his fully human, intellectual faculties at the top. If you start engaging in sexual activity which is mostly aimed at satisfy our lower, baser and more animal desires alone this is bound to create an imbalance in the internal hierarchy of the individual. Sex is an act and acts matter, particularly one so intimate and humanly important as sex. I have no doubt there are men who can have sex with a prostitute in relatively tender and intimate way, particularly if they do it rarely, but most of them do not. In our society this sort of thing is the last thing we should be encouraging.
    Why must people be inhibited sexually in order to have good character?
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  9. #249
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Yes, but for me as a traditional conservative I cannot help thinking about society, culture and imagination before I make a decision. For me these are not superficial and unimportant, but the very basic of most people's lives, regulating and even to a degree forming them and giving them meaning. We have to be careful with drugs in our society. We have done away with restraint and self-control and ways to get high using an artificial substance like MDMA or heroin are going to make matters worse. But marijuana, like alcohol, can be used in such a way that it is not the central or single part of an experience. One can hardly have an ecstasy pill over a working lunch, whereas one can have a glass of wine. For this and various other reasons I see no reason for it to be prohibited.

    Prostitution is different though.
    Why is prostitution different? Decriminalizing it protects women who have chosen to make it their profession. In Nevada, crimes against women who elect to sell sex are drastically lower than crimes against women who prostitute illegally in any other area. Same for prostitutes in Amsterdam. Disease transmission/acquisition rates for women in legalized prostitution (and for customers) is significantly lower than for those who prostitute illegally. There has been no correlation between legalized prostitution and increased infidelity/divorce in the same areas. There has also been no correlation between legalized prostitution and increased single-parent situations, increased teen pregnancy, increased rape, or other crimes. So, again, you have a situation were decriminalization has shown to benefit the whole more than criminalizing the action ever has...so, I see no difference between decriminalizing drugs and decriminalizing the sale of sex.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  10. #250
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Why must people be inhibited sexually in order to have good character?
    Who said anything about inhibited? It really depends on how you use the word inhibited. I think they should control their sexual desires and make the lower, more animal aspects parts of them accord with and be held in place by the higher more fully human aspects. In this sense I want people to be sexually inhibited. But I do think that the more physical and animal aspects can and often should be a part of healthy human sexuality, they simply shouldn't be pursued in isolation and allowed to usurp the place of the higher aspects of man. In this sense I do not support sexual inhibitions.

    I think good character is about being more fully human. So it includes having self-control and restraint. Drinking to excess in any repetitive and sustained way is a mark of less perfect character as you are not controlling your desires for what is, on its own, a pleasure that is beneath the full social, cultural, creative, moral, intellectual and spiritual potential of man. The same goes for the over indulgence in the physical and lower aspects of sexuality in isolation from the rest of proper, human sexuality.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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