View Poll Results: How should Marijuana be dealt with?

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  • Stricter federal laws must be made, and more money put to enforcing them

    13 10.83%
  • Give individual states the right to decide how to go about it

    39 32.50%
  • Legalize it through a federal law

    52 43.33%
  • Give states the right to decide about it as long as they abide by certain Federal guidelines

    16 13.33%
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Thread: Marijuana

  1. #211
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    It's been around for thousands of years I don't think it can get more legitimized than that.
    But it was rarely accepted.

    Laws should not be based on personal morality, as in what is right, and wrong for me to do, but what is best for society as a whole, and how much should the government interfere with peoples lives. Trying to make the standard of living the best possible for everyone, regardless of their standing in the society, or their opinions on things like morality, religion etc. Your comment on prostitution being wrong is simply an opinion, not a fact, and you can't treat it like a fact, which is what your doing. If you don't want people engaging in prostitution then go out and protest about it, start a campaign telling people about the dangers of it, and tell them not to do it. But should the government really legislate, and interfere with people's freedoms in such a way? I don't think so, that is not the governments place, it is just harmful for the people in every aspect.
    Well now you are simply trying to replace restrictive, personal morality with some sort of collective morality based on standards of living. This is just as much legislating morality as any other attempt to do so. It also ignores the importance of personal morality, of self-control, prudence and temperance and such virtues. These are surely very important, even to the health of society. To think that you can make a healthy society just by encouraging a sentimental concern with collective standards of living seems terribly misguided. You need at least a basic amount of self-control and temperance among the individuals who make up society.

    Prostitution is wrong because it encourages the worst in man, the cheapening of one of his most important relationships and aspects to a business exchange and to its most animal and least human aspects.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-09-12 at 08:33 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  2. #212
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Since we're talking about female dignity as though it's a commodity, I'll ask you a question in jest:

    Attachment 67120958
    How do you define dignity?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  3. #213
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    How do you define dignity?
    Presumably it is being fully human, or perhaps a full, female human.

    Sexuality is a very important aspect of Man. To reduce it to the interactions involved in prostitution, financial and animal, is to loose out of much of this aspect.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-09-12 at 08:38 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #214
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    For me it is. It might not be for you, but that's your problem, not mine. :-)
    In spite of you being an asshole, I still have empathy for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  5. #215
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What evidence would you like? I offer common sense, reason and experience as evidence. Man is a social animal. He is born into social groups with regulate and partially form him. Social and cultural mores, beliefs and values have a large effect over him; indeed he is an imaginative animal as well, the way he imaginatively constructs his view actions, which is impacted on by general social attitudes, has a lot to do with how he views those actions and the world. Therefore it stands to reason that the general legitimising of dubious behaviours may have a social and cultural effect.
    but we are discussing an activity which can not result in harm to another

    why should society oppose actions which are not detrimental to anyone other than the individual who exercises personal choice to engage in them
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  6. #216
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but we are discussing an activity which can not result in harm to another

    why should society oppose actions which are not detrimental to anyone other than the individual who exercises personal choice to engage in them
    What I'm saying is harm isn't always direct. Harm can be based on the social, cultural and imaginative effects of legitimising such an activity.

    Prostitution even more personally prostitution effects those engaged in it and through them their relations, associations and communities.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #217
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    But it was rarely accepted.
    That's not true. It was accepted for centuries in various places around the world, and in some places today.

    Well now you are simply trying to replace restrictive, personal morality with some sort of collective morality based on standards of living. This is just as much legislating morality as any other attempt to do so. It also ignores the importance of personal morality, of self-control, prudence and temperance and such virtues. These are surely very important, even to the health of society. To think that you can make a healthy society just by encouraging a sentimental concern with collective standards of living seems terribly misguided. You need at least a basic amount of self-control and temperance among the individuals who make up society.

    Prostitution is wrong because it encourages the worst in man, the cheapening of one of his most important relationships and aspects to a business exchange and to its most animal and least human aspects.
    There is a different type of morality you must use when making laws for large groups, you must consider the greater good of the people, and not just try and shove your morality down people's throats. And my way of thinking does not ignore the importance of personal morality, it actually enhances it, and puts greater importance on it, because it is up to the people to act moral, and do what they think is right based on their own though process and volition, and not have the force of the government make them. Laws should be based on what gives people the most freedom, while keeping the populace safe, providing them their basic needs. Does outlawing prostitution do that? No it does not, it actually endangers people, not help them. So why should it be a law when your only objection to it is a moral when, which is subjective.

    And your opinion on prostitution is a valid one, that is a valid opinion, but someone who views prostitution as a way to relax, and have some human companionship, and that there is nothing wrong with it, is also another valid opinion. Why should the government choose sides here? You both have valid opinions, why not let you live your lives based on your own personal opinions and morality, and have the government stay out of your ****ing business. Everyone's happy in that scenario IMO.
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  8. #218
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    That seems a rather 'French' approach to military strategy.
    Barring some added explanation, which still may not get it done, that is a very ignorant reply.

  9. #219
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    That's not true. It was accepted for centuries in various places around the world.
    It was still rarely accepted and even when it was it was hardly considered acceptable. I'm not saying that it is always black and white how to deal with issues like prostitution and drug use. Social and cultural context is important. You can delegitimise and marginalise it without it being illegal, but you can also use the law as a tool in this process. It all depends on the context. Prostitution is generally illegal in the West, for the to legalise it in the contexts of gross falls in morality and decency is a bad move.


    There is a different type of morality you must use when making laws for large groups, you must consider the greater good of the people, and not just try and shove your morality down people's throats. And my way of thinking does not ignore the importance of personal morality, it actually enhances it, and puts greater importance on it, because it is up to the people to act moral, and do what they think is right based on their own though process and volition, and not have the force of the government make them. Laws should be based on what gives people the most freedom, while keeping the populace safe, providing them their basic needs. Does outlawing prostitution do that? No it does not, it actually endangers people, not help them. So why should it be a law when your only objection to it is a moral when, which is subjective.
    What you are doing is confusing the importance of individuals choosing to be moral and individuals choosing what is moral. You simply create social chaos by trying to remove any sort of overarching and in depth social morality. This does not help freedom because it will stop many people striving to achieve any sort of restrictive, humanist (as opposed to humanitarian or sentimental) morality. This will lead to a loss of social cohesion, which will weaken freedom. Man is most free when he is most fully human. It is not simply in choice, but in his nature that man becomes free.

    The government, particularly in our modern, relatively statist societies, is important in terms of social morality. The position it takes will effect social morality. If it takes a neutral opinion on prostitution this means that it will harder for social morality to repudiate prostitution.

    And your opinion on prostitution is a valid one, that is a valid opinion, but someone who views prostitution as a way to relax, and have some human companionship, and that there is nothing wrong with it, is also another valid opinion. Why should the government choose sides here? You both have valid opinions, why not let you live your lives based on your own personal opinions and morality, and have the government stay out of your ****ing business. Everyone's happy in that scenario IMO.
    But that person is wrong. That person is indulging in the lower and baser aspects of human sexuality and just defending this because they like it. The government should choose sides because one side is right and one is wrong and the government is an important aspect in society and culture, particularly in modern societies. If you were to shut down government schools and drastically lessen the social reach of government and we were in a situation where there was strong social cohesion and morality then things might be different, but in the contexts it would be a bad move.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #220
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    Re: Marijuna

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Barring some added explanation, which still may not get it done, that is a very ignorant reply.
    Or it was a joke.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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