View Poll Results: Which idea?

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  • Tradition

    23 29.87%
  • Hierarchy

    1 1.30%
  • Elitism

    10 12.99%
  • Populism

    2 2.60%
  • Individualism

    15 19.48%
  • Other

    26 33.77%
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Thread: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

  1. #41
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    Russell Kirk is one of the foremost conservative philosophers of the 20th Century. Here are his first 5 tenets. A second posting will include 6 thru 10.

    The Essence of Conservatism by Russell Kirk

    (1) Men and nations are governed by moral laws; and those laws have their origin in a wisdom that is more than human—in divine justice. At heart, political problems are moral and religious problems. The wise statesman tries to apprehend the moral law and govern his conduct accordingly. We have a moral debt to our ancestors, who bestowed upon us our civilization, and a moral obligation to the generations who will come after us. This debt is ordained of God. We have no right, therefore, to tamper impudently with human nature or with the delicate fabric of our civil social order.

    (2) Variety and diversity are the characteristics of a high civilization. Uniformity and absolute equality are the death of all real vigor and freedom in existence. Conservatives resist with impartial strength the uniformity of a tyrant or an oligarchy, and the uniformity of what Tocqueville called “democratic despotism.”

    (3) Justice means that every man and every woman have the right to what is their own—to the things best suited to their own nature, to the rewards of their ability and integrity, to their property and their personality. Civilized society requires that all men and women have equal rights before the law, but that equality should not extend to equality of condition: that is, society is a great partnership, in which all have equal rights—but not to equal things. The just society requires sound leadership, different rewards for different abilities, and a sense of respect and duty.

    (4) Property and freedom are inseparably connected; economic leveling is not economic progress. Conservatives value property for its own sake, of course; but they value it even more because without it all men and women are at the mercy of an omnipotent government.

    (5) Power is full of danger; therefore the good state is one in which power is checked and balanced, restricted by sound constitutions and customs. So far as possible, political power ought to be kept in the hands of private persons and local institutions. Centralization is ordinarily a sign of social decadence.

  2. #42
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    You mean real conservatism or that neo-crap they have in the modern Republican party?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #43
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    The Essence of Conservatism - Russell Kirk - Part II

    (6) The past is a great storehouse of wisdom; as Burke said, “the individual is foolish, but the species is wise.” The conservative believes that we need to guide ourselves by the moral traditions, the social experience, and the whole complex body of knowledge bequeathed to us by our ancestors. The conservative appeals beyond the rash opinion of the hour to what Chesterton called “the democracy of the dead”—that is, the considered opinions of the wise men and women who died before our time, the experience of the race. The conservative, in short, knows he was not born yesterday.

    (7) Modern society urgently needs true community: and true community is a world away from collectivism. Real community is governed by love and charity, not by compulsion. Through churches, voluntary associations, local governments, and a variety of institutions, conservatives strive to keep community healthy. Conservatives are not selfish, but public-spirited. They know that collectivism means the end of real community, substituting uniformity for variety and force for willing cooperation.

    (8) In the affairs of nations, the American conservative feels that his country ought to set an example to the world, but ought not to try to remake the world in its image. It is a law of politics, as well as of biology, that every living thing loves above all else—even above its own life—its distinct identity, which sets it off from all other things. The conservative does not aspire to domination of the world, nor does he relish the prospect of a world reduced to a single pattern of government and civilization.

    (9) Men and women are not perfectible, conservatives know; and neither are political institutions. We cannot make a heaven on earth, though we may make a hell. We all are creatures of mingled good and evil; and, good institutions neglected and ancient moral principles ignored, the evil in us tends to predominate. Therefore the conservative is suspicious of all utopian schemes. He does not believe that, by power of positive law, we can solve all the problems of humanity. We can hope to make our world tolerable, but we cannot make it perfect. When progress is achieved, it is through prudent recognition of the limitations of human nature.

    (10) Change and reform, conservatives are convinced, are not identical: moral and political innovation can be destructive as well as beneficial; and if innovation is undertaken in a spirit of presumption and enthusiasm, probably it will be disastrous. All human institutions alter to some extent from age to age, for slow change is the means of conserving society, just as it is the means for renewing the human body. But American conservatives endeavor to reconcile the growth and alteration essential to our life with the strength of our social and moral traditions. With Lord Falkland, they say, “When it is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change.” They understand that men and women are best content when they can feel that they live in a stable world of enduring values.

  4. #44
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    Reasonable. Rational.

  5. #45
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Russell Kirk is one of the foremost conservative philosophers of the 20th Century. Here are his first 5 tenets. A second posting will include 6 thru 10.

    The Essence of Conservatism by Russell Kirk

    (1) Men and nations are governed by moral laws; and those laws have their origin in a wisdom that is more than human—in divine justice. At heart, political problems are moral and religious problems. The wise statesman tries to apprehend the moral law and govern his conduct accordingly. We have a moral debt to our ancestors, who bestowed upon us our civilization, and a moral obligation to the generations who will come after us. This debt is ordained of God. We have no right, therefore, to tamper impudently with human nature or with the delicate fabric of our civil social order.

    (2) Variety and diversity are the characteristics of a high civilization. Uniformity and absolute equality are the death of all real vigor and freedom in existence. Conservatives resist with impartial strength the uniformity of a tyrant or an oligarchy, and the uniformity of what Tocqueville called “democratic despotism.”

    (3) Justice means that every man and every woman have the right to what is their own—to the things best suited to their own nature, to the rewards of their ability and integrity, to their property and their personality. Civilized society requires that all men and women have equal rights before the law, but that equality should not extend to equality of condition: that is, society is a great partnership, in which all have equal rights—but not to equal things. The just society requires sound leadership, different rewards for different abilities, and a sense of respect and duty.

    (4) Property and freedom are inseparably connected; economic leveling is not economic progress. Conservatives value property for its own sake, of course; but they value it even more because without it all men and women are at the mercy of an omnipotent government.

    (5) Power is full of danger; therefore the good state is one in which power is checked and balanced, restricted by sound constitutions and customs. So far as possible, political power ought to be kept in the hands of private persons and local institutions. Centralization is ordinarily a sign of social decadence.
    Thank you very much for that post. Genuinely stand in awe of Mr. Kirk's wisdom....


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  6. #46
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You mean real conservatism or that neo-crap they have in the modern Republican party?
    And by "real" you just happen to mean like one brand of conservatism, right? Not like any other forms of conservatism have been popular throughout American and world history, right?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by rosie1 View Post
    To me, I automatically think "stingy." Like they don't have kids attending public schools, so why should they pay taxes for them. Or a dislike for most programs meant to benefit society as a whole.

    At one time it did mean conserving spending of our tax dollars as a country. I might have respected the tea party, if they had a hissy fit during Bush's big spending spree.
    "Bush's big spending spree" is a drop in the bucket compared to Obama's HUGE spending spree.

  8. #48
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Can you have conservatism without hierarchy?

    I think most people are elitists and populists at the same time. It just depends on what they are elitist and populist about and how they are.
    I suppose so, with that interesting mixture between being against the so-called "elites," yet also comment that "the people" are of superior mindset than the elites who are perhaps "out of touch" or "corrupt."
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  9. #49
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    Russell Kirk is one of the foremost conservative philosophers of the 20th Century. Here are his first 5 tenets. A second posting will include 6 thru 10.

    The Essence of Conservatism by Russell Kirk

    (1) Men and nations are governed by moral laws; and those laws have their origin in a wisdom that is more than human—in divine justice. At heart, political problems are moral and religious problems. The wise statesman tries to apprehend the moral law and govern his conduct accordingly. We have a moral debt to our ancestors, who bestowed upon us our civilization, and a moral obligation to the generations who will come after us. This debt is ordained of God. We have no right, therefore, to tamper impudently with human nature or with the delicate fabric of our civil social order.

    (2) Variety and diversity are the characteristics of a high civilization. Uniformity and absolute equality are the death of all real vigor and freedom in existence. Conservatives resist with impartial strength the uniformity of a tyrant or an oligarchy, and the uniformity of what Tocqueville called “democratic despotism.”

    (3) Justice means that every man and every woman have the right to what is their own—to the things best suited to their own nature, to the rewards of their ability and integrity, to their property and their personality. Civilized society requires that all men and women have equal rights before the law, but that equality should not extend to equality of condition: that is, society is a great partnership, in which all have equal rights—but not to equal things. The just society requires sound leadership, different rewards for different abilities, and a sense of respect and duty.

    (4) Property and freedom are inseparably connected; economic leveling is not economic progress. Conservatives value property for its own sake, of course; but they value it even more because without it all men and women are at the mercy of an omnipotent government.

    (5) Power is full of danger; therefore the good state is one in which power is checked and balanced, restricted by sound constitutions and customs. So far as possible, political power ought to be kept in the hands of private persons and local institutions. Centralization is ordinarily a sign of social decadence.
    Another "GOD" based sermon.

    Very little of these five so-called tenets are based in realism, but rather idealism.

    It's not about the private person, local institutions, equal rights, freedom and sound leadership...its about political candy to feed to needy citizens who are yearning to satisfying their sweet tooth for hope.

    As of this day...none of these so-called tenets exist in our political and government institution...NOR WILL under any current or future governments who are empowered as ours is today.

  10. #50
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    Re: When You Hear "Conservative", which Idea First Comes to Mind?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Haven't we played this game already?
    Yes we have, its all been said and done. Its ok since you are on the winning side in this game.
    When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock

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