View Poll Results: What do you think about smoking in cars?

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  • It shouldn't be banned at all.

    29 58.00%
  • I'm fine with Arkansas's current smoking law.

    3 6.00%
  • I'd like to see the law applied everywhere.

    15 30.00%
  • I don't know/Other

    3 6.00%
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Thread: Smoking in Cars

  1. #191
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Ah, the classic libertarian argument. If it may be hard to enforce, it cannot be enforced! Quit the reductio ad absurdum and engage us in rational debate. It has been shown that secondhand smoke is harmful, and the rights of the smoker stop where the rights of their children begin.
    They do correlate. But I want proof. I want data. Give me the density-hours.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  2. #192
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    so you're just on some anti-smoking crusade then? There are certainly a lot of factors which can negatively impact the health of growing children; yet smoking is the only one we should consider? Not obesity which is the number one problem currently? Becoming a nation of little piggies; far more impacting than perhaps a small amount of SHS. Childhood diabetes is no laughing matter. What else should we not regulate in your zeal to only regulate smoking? And here I thought you were thinking of the children.
    Um, I think I've made it clear that this isn't the case.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  3. #193
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Your telling me that a enough SHS hangs around to equal locking a child in the car or some other confined space and forcing the child to breath in cigarette smoke for 5-10 minutes or more? Having grown up with a parent who smokes I can tell you its not the same.
    Great! So you have numbers. This is what I'm looking for. What are the numbers. What is the difference between long term, years exposure of SHS having saturated the house vs. the 5-10 minutes of being in the car? Or...do you not have numbers and are just making assumptions off of your one data point? Nah, I'm sure you have numbers.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #194
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Your telling me that a enough SHS hangs around to equal locking a child in the car or some other confined space and forcing the child to breath in cigarette smoke for 5-10 minutes or more? Having grown up with a parent who smokes I can tell you its not the same.
    Tobacco stinks. The smell of it sticks, and it's not pleasant to be around people who even live with chain smokers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  5. #195
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Um, I think I've made it clear that this isn't the case.
    You've said as much. But you certainly haven't made it clear. You seem to go after only smoking as potential harm for kids. Why not the other things?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #196
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Come on! Even the smallest amount of government intervention will be treated as fascism! And it's not all-or-none. The government can protect children without being an Orwellian superpower that libertarians shake in their boots about.
    Can it? Yes. Will it? People's arguments here don't give confidence. The absolute "Please won't someone think of the children!" arguments do not lead to natural limits on government power. More so than SHS, childhood obesity is the largest health problem facing our kids today. It is one of the leading causes of childhood diabetes, which counter to what some in this thread may think, it's always "reversible". The strain on the heart from being so grossly overweight doesn't heal itself miraculously. The plaque buildup and stress on the cardiovascular system doesn't vanish because someone goes out and runs. The long term affects on joints which lead to future surgery and thus us having to deal with it through healthcare costs isn't always going to fix itself. Are some of the effects of childhood obesity reversible? Yes. Are all? No. Why are we stopping then? SHS is so bad in and of itself that even without knowing fully the dynamics or exposure times necessary to produce measurable harm we have to go after it. But something like obesity which is well more damaging both short and long term....nope. Why? Are we thinking of the children or aren't we?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #197
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Tobacco stinks. The smell of it sticks, and it's not pleasant to be around people who even live with chain smokers.
    That's second hand smoke right there. It's sorption properties cause it to cling, its outgassing properties cause exposure even after long breaks between cigarettes.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #198
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They do correlate. But I want proof. I want data. Give me the density-hours.
    Fine
    Short-term exposure to tobacco smoke also has a measurable effect on the heart in non-smokers. Just 30 minutes of exposure is enough to reduce blood flow to the heart.

    In the longer term, second-hand smoke exposure has been shown to increase the risk of developing a range of smoking-related illnesses. These include lung cancer, heart disease, stroke, respiratory illnesses, and many childhood illnesses.
    Smoking - effects of second-hand smoke on adults - Everybody - Health Information for New Zealanders
    Last edited by MadLib; 01-03-12 at 10:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  9. #199
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They do correlate. But I want proof. I want data. Give me the density-hours.
    You wear denial really well. Hummmm, or maybe you hate being wrong. You must have studied the failed arguments of the CEO's of all the major cigarette makers' testimony before Congress when they swore on oath that cigs aren't addictive or cause serious injury or death.

    Lame argument, but worse, you know the truth and in the face of a truth thats been repeatedly proved and published, you got the balls to demand "Density Hours" stats.

  10. #200
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Tobacco stinks. The smell of it sticks, and it's not pleasant to be around people who even live with chain smokers.
    I lived with a chain smoker for 18 years of my life, you do not notice the smell as much as someone who is not around it a regular basis. It is not the smell that bothered me growing up it was the smoke being in face and breathing in the smoke.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 01-03-12 at 10:24 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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