View Poll Results: What do you think about smoking in cars?

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  • It shouldn't be banned at all.

    29 58.00%
  • I'm fine with Arkansas's current smoking law.

    3 6.00%
  • I'd like to see the law applied everywhere.

    15 30.00%
  • I don't know/Other

    3 6.00%
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Thread: Smoking in Cars

  1. #101
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    I notice that the proponents of this law claim that the evidence of the harm that can be caused by secondary smoking provides prima facie justification for banning smoking in cars. Prima facie evidence points to great health risks of many, many activities that parents oblige their children to participate in, some with far more serious consequences for their wellbeing. In order to argue for this ban isn't there a burden of proof on its proponents to show that other more dangerous practices are being prioritised ahead of this measure?

    If this isn't the most serious threat to the health of minors then what is the motivation behind this move? And what justification are its proponents using to shuffle this kind of measure to the top of the list?

    Personally I have a problem with using legislation to engineer personal behaviour change amongst the citizenry. Of course that's not a blanket objection, but it does mean that when the law seeks to interfere in the arena of private behaviour the burden of proof of harm needs to be very stingent.

    I really would be interested to see any peer-reviewed medical data linking secondary smoking in cars to negative health outcomes.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    So your argument with me is resolved, then, Bubba, since you've moved on to newer posts?

  3. #103
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Third fallacy of the thread - the straw man. And your old false dilemma is in there too, with a little slippery slope fallacy peeking out.

    Children should not be exposed to any kind of smoke in an enclosed area. If you can't agree with that, you explain why.
    What's the danger? Is it more harmful than say, feeding their kids too much fast food?

  4. #104
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Child rape is "personal", using that logic. Just sayin'
    Due to the restrictions of this site, my response must be muted, yet at the same time in context my contempt cannot be denied. A slew of adjectives would normally follow, but in light of the situation I can only express my contempt once again.

  5. #105
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Due to the restrictions of this site, my response must be muted, yet at the same time in context my contempt cannot be denied. A slew of adjectives would normally follow, but in light of the situation I can only express my contempt once again.
    Well, I guess I express contempt for the contempt in your posts.

  6. #106
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  7. #107
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    So your argument with me is resolved, then, Bubba, since you've moved on to newer posts?
    OK, here we go again. look at YOUR post with my added emphasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Cigarette smoke is different than car fumes. Secondhand smoke can still cause cancer, over enough time.

    My main problem is smoking in a care, with kids, with the windows "up," not down. Having asthma, when my uncle would smoke with the windows up it was like slow suffocation.

    So no, I see no problem with having government fine irresponsible parents who do this sort of crap. If the windows are down, that changes things.
    you were excoriating against the effects of second hand cigarette smoke, and as a comparison, YOU noted how the adverse effects of cigarette smoke did not compare to the [implied] milder effects of auto exhaust fumes

    your post was foolish then and remains so
    your inability to grasp the foolishness of such comparison indicates to me that you are without the ability to comprehend why it should properly be found foolish
    Last edited by justabubba; 01-03-12 at 05:53 PM.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You can clearly demonstrate through test and data that it has a positive effect on a child's health.

    That's a good one. I think open alcohol containers should be in general allowed so long as the driver is under the legal limit.

    You can produce data demonstrating the unnecessary risk it causes to others on the road.

    Yet all (barring the open container one) has data to support the ban. I've merely asked for quantitative measurement and data of the system such that we can know the parameters under which we are operating. Is that somehow a bad thing to ask? Should I not think of the problem, but rather react emotionally to the question posed?

    In what quantities and to what end? People certainly need not smoke in cars or in bars or in home; but is there a line? Second hand smoke does have harmful chemicals, but in a car what are the concentrations? What is the time necessary to realize negative health effects? These things go into deciding whether or not it is proper to elicit government force. That's all I want to know.
    Where's the pro to being allowed to smoke in your car with a child in there? We know the con is potentially exposing your child to dangerous second hand smoke, even if the danger is miniscule. But the only pro is being able to expose your child to that harm to indulge in that addiction. Any harm at all, and we know there is some from just a little exposure to the smoke by children while they are in an enclosed car, should be enough to legitimize such laws.

    In fact, I can think of another con, in that smoking, especially lighting that cig, while driving could easily be a distraction to driving. (Personally, I don't think that driving and smoking, without minors in the car, should be against any law though.)
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  9. #109
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    Re: Smoking in Cars


  10. #110
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    Re: Smoking in Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Due to the restrictions of this site, my response must be muted, yet at the same time in context my contempt cannot be denied. A slew of adjectives would normally follow, but in light of the situation I can only express my contempt once again.
    Thank you for not calling me an idiot. And I'm sorry that I'm pointing out the faulty logic in your posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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