View Poll Results: What Kind of libertarian are you? Libertarian poll only.

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  • Deontological (coercion is always immoral)

    3 20.00%
  • Consequentialist (non-coercion has better consequences than coercion)

    7 46.67%
  • Pro-Proprietarian (for personal property)

    11 73.33%
  • Anti-Proprietarian (against personal property)

    0 0%
  • Statist (state is necessary)

    9 60.00%
  • Anarchist (state is harmful)

    3 20.00%
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Thread: Libertarian Poll

  1. #11
    Dorset Patriot
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    I am an Deontological, Anti-Proprietarian, Anarchist who can tolerate the state and some progressive policy.

    My Anit-Proprietarian views stems from the Lockean Proviso. I believe that man owns himself and has a right to his/her labor. However, natural resources were not created by man and need fair share and appropriation restraints. However, this contradicts my anarchism, since fair share and appropriation restrains would require a government.

    I am best described as a geo-libertarian which combines Georgism with libertarianism.

    I am also one of the few libertarians who believes in the estate tax until we get our crony capitalism under control. I am not a fan of taxation, but uber rich estates and natural resource use are the best places to tax and fund a limited government.
    Aren't you really a propertarian then? I used to be a Mutualist anarchist or near-anarchist. We were right on the edge between propertarian and non-propertarian. I personally support the Land Value Tax though I'm not libertarian nor do I necessarily see it as the panacea to all social problems some Georgists seem to imply.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  2. #12
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Aren't you really a propertarian then? I used to be a Mutualist anarchist or near-anarchist. We were right on the edge between propertarian and non-propertarian. I personally support the Land Value Tax though I'm not libertarian nor do I necessarily see it as the panacea to all social problems some Georgists seem to imply.
    I would not consider myself a propertarian in regard to natural resource use, but feel fee to elaborate and state your case. In addition, I am not an idealogue nor to I believe that any political philosophy has the panacea to all our problem. Life should not be held captive to ideologues.

    Regardless, I gravitate towards geolibertarianism in which I consider anti-propertarian, but perhaps I am misunderstanding something.
    Last edited by Antiderivative; 01-01-12 at 11:58 PM.

  3. #13
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative
    Regardless, I gravitate towards geolibertarianism in which I consider anti-propertarian, but perhaps I am misunderstanding something.
    I don't think that you are. If you were propertarian and anarchist (i.e. property can be obtained even to the detriment of others), then that would instantly force you into the far-right, anacho-capitalist category if I am not mistaken. There seems to be little to no economic 'middle ground' for anarchists (not being used as an insult). What I mean is, an economically center-left/center-right/centrist anarchist would be impossible to find.
    Last edited by JustinS; 01-02-12 at 12:03 AM.

  4. #14
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    I would not consider myself a propertarian in regard to natural resource use, but feel fee to elaborate and state your case. In addition, I am not a idealogue nor to I believe that any political philosophy has the panacea to all our problem. Life should not be held captive to ideologues.

    Regardless, I gravitate towards geolibertarianism.
    I just meant that though geolibertarians are 'less' of propertarians than various Lockeans and the like, they do have a belief in private property, indeed one that extends beyond the personal, occupany and use of Mutualists and obviously quite at odds to the social anarchists. I suppose it depends how you define propertarian though. I would say Mutualists or individualist anarchists, like Proudhon and Tucker, were on the line between the propertarians and non-propertarians.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #15
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    I think that the line between propertarian and non-propertarian should be when one is allowed to obtain property to the detriment of other individuals, i.e. where poverty is technically allowed in an anarchist/libertarian society.
    Last edited by JustinS; 01-02-12 at 12:12 AM.

  6. #16
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    I think that the line between propertarian and non-propertarian should be when one is allowed to obtain property to the detriment of other individuals, i.e. where poverty is technically allowed in an anarchist society.
    So basically if you accept a strict interpretation of Locke's proviso whereby you can't own property absolutely if it is scare; at least without paying compensation, as in Georgism. That could certainly be another definition of Propertarian.

    I used to be a Anti-Propertarian (Mutualist basically though I was never completely set in one position) and at least semi-anarchist ( though, like most left liberatarians I believed in local democracy and that sort of thing, basically). I was neither strictly rights based nor utilitarian.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-02-12 at 12:15 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #17
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    So basically if you accept a strict interpretation of Locke's proviso whereby you can't own property absolutely if it is scare, at least without paying compensation, as in Georgism. That could certainly be another definition of Propertarian.
    Can you define anit-propertarian so I have better sense of where you are coming from?

  8. #18
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    I think that the line between propertarian and non-propertarian should be when one is allowed to obtain property to the detriment of other individuals, i.e. where poverty is technically allowed in an anarchist/libertarian society.
    failure is always allowed in a proper society because to try to wipe out failure means forcing others who are innocent of causing someone to fail-to have to help remedy it

    Likewise I find the term anarcho capitalist (a term a well known leading lefty used to apply to me when we studied together) to be contradictory capitalism requires a system of courts to protect private property

  9. #19
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    Can you define anit-propertarian so I have better sense of where you are coming from?
    Anti-propertarian would basically be someone who didn't accept any sort of property not based on direct, personal use and occupancy. So in a sense any sort of absenteeism, not counting going on holiday or such trivial instances as that. So social anarchist and libertarians socialists as well as Mutualists and Individual anarchists.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #20
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    Re: Libertarian Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude
    Likewise I find the term anarcho capitalist (a term a well known leading lefty used to apply to me when we studied together) to be contradictory capitalism requires a system of courts to protect private property
    If I am not mistaken, Rothbard's ideal system proposes that property disputes be regulated by voluntary corporations. The law would be 'privately run'.
    Last edited by JustinS; 01-02-12 at 12:21 AM.

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