View Poll Results: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

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  • Yes

    77 91.67%
  • No

    7 8.33%
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Thread: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

  1. #431
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    all of that stuff was banned in california and converting them is a federal felony

    in fact its illegal to own any guns if you are a felon or "INTEND" to use the gun in a crime

    why should access for people like me be restricted? criminals are already banned from owning them
    I don't think responsible people with training should be banned but unfortunately it's difficult to allow some of it as legal for certain experts. The Law doesn't always do a good job of being fair and if it's possible some of it should be rewritten. In those TV shows I mentioned they're firing off all kinds of automatic weapons, explosives and big effing guns. So if you got the bucks travel to their backyard for some fun. I don't like half the rules that exist but I can't change them or make people act sensible.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #432
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I don't think responsible people with training should be banned but unfortunately it's difficult to allow some of it as legal for certain experts. The Law doesn't always do a good job of being fair and if it's possible some of it should be rewritten. In those TV shows I mentioned they're firing off all kinds of automatic weapons, explosives and big effing guns. So if you got the bucks travel to their backyard for some fun. I don't like half the rules that exist but I can't change them or make people act sensible.
    I guess that is the difference

    freedom or safety

    but I don't think restricting freedom makes us safer

  3. #433
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess that is the difference

    freedom or safety

    but I don't think restricting freedom makes us safer
    You think that's what I said? A law doesn't prevent you from doing anything that you don't want. How about those illegal weapons those bad guys had. You can get them and go out in the woods far enough where nobody will know and fire away till your hearts content. But if you want to make it legal, easy and acceptable by the majority at large then you'll have a lot more than me to convince. If there was a way for responsible and trained people to own and use such weapons I'm all for it. They have to draw the line somewhere and you can fight for where you think that should be but you can't boil it down a two word phrase (freedom or safety) and say that's it. Nobody will accept that kind of preposterous reasoning.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  4. #434
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You think that's what I said? A law doesn't prevent you from doing anything that you don't want. How about those illegal weapons those bad guys had. You can get them and go out in the woods far enough where nobody will know and fire away till your hearts content. But if you want to make it legal, easy and acceptable by the majority at large then you'll have a lot more than me to convince. If there was a way for responsible and trained people to own and use such weapons I'm all for it. They have to draw the line somewhere and you can fight for where you think that should be but you can't boil it down a two word phrase (freedom or safety) and say that's it. Nobody will accept that kind of preposterous reasoning.
    we have more than enough laws right now-too many. I should be able to buy a machine gun made YESTERDAY for the same price cops pay for one rather than settling for one made before May 19, 1986 and costing as much as a good low mileage used Lexus or BMW

  5. #435
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    we have more than enough laws right now-too many. I should be able to buy a machine gun made YESTERDAY for the same price cops pay for one rather than settling for one made before May 19, 1986 and costing as much as a good low mileage used Lexus or BMW
    I see this isn't about your need to feel equally armed against a raiding horde of heavily armed banditos it's about "boys with toys". I have a good friend who's an ex Special Police (Air Force) and Corrections Officer and he's like you, gun bonkers. He told me once he was guarding a highly sensitive area on a base when in the rain some soldier had drunkenly wandered in. He told the GI to halt and be recognized! The guy didn't hear him and kept going, he repeated Halt and he still kept going, finally he pulled the bolt back on his M16 and the sound had the guy frozen. I ask my friend what would you have done if he kept going after that he said, "I would've unloaded the clip center mass, and never have been the same again." He was a drunk teenage soldier who didn't know where he was and couldn't hear the commands to halt over the rain. But the military wouldn't have cared because he was guarding nukes and they're very serious about that. Yet still my good friend wants a fully automatic AR15 to go with his Hungarian made Browning Hi Power, 357 Colt Python, Desert Eagle .44 mag and heaven knows what else. I trust the dude because he's responsible and trained but I still wouldn't buy him a BFG because he's bananas for weapons. Besides I couldn't afford that stuff.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #436
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    LMR I wouldn't have held you to technical specs as anything important. What I don't know about ordinance could fill books, especially compared to others. And I actually like to watch shows on weapons, Top Shot, Sons of Guns, American Guns and Lock'N Load.

    The rifles used in the North Hollywood incident were 2 Romanian AIMs or Pistol Mitralieră model 1963, which is almost identical to the AKM/AKMS. 1 Norinco Type 56 S-1, 1 Heckler & Koch HK91 and 1 modified Bushmaster XM15 E2S. Again I don't know much but I'm not a gun hater just someone who doesn't want easy access.

    From the movie Tombstone, Wyatt Earp, "skin that smoke wagon and see what happens", funny line.
    I'll take this at face value. I don't think restrictions are the answer in the least when it comes to armaments that are within a certain scope of control. This would include cutting weapons, blunt weapons, other hand held, and firearms. I used to be much more lax on things when I was younger but have come around to being fine with things that are provably common sense, I have no problem with "shall issue" CCW requirements due to the fact that many criminals will hide a gun to ambush others, even though most will do so regardless of the law at least there is a basis to add charges should they engage in that cowardly act(this is not a condemnation of concealment in general, rather "conceal to ambush").

    The reason I believe that ordinance can be licensed without issue is due to the blast radius and storage issues, for instance C4 was the preferred explosive of the Marine corps when my cousin was in service. He tells me when it's new it's predictable and a pound can take out a city block, but as it ages it destabalizes and can blow at random. Many explosives are dangerous just by the mere existence thereof and even trained and licensed professionals can have an incident. Thus I believe it has a smaller circle of protection due to these issues.

    The reason I believe all firearms should be legal is that they really can't do any harm sitting in a gun case, as well if some jackass decided to duplicate the Hollywood shootout someone with the right firearms can easily aid the police or NG called out to the scene. The only problems I've truly seen with autos are when someone doesn't take the rideup seriously and ends up throwing wild rounds due to lack of control, but I've seen people do stupid stuff with semi-autos, shotguns, and bolt-actions as well. I actually lost a cousin to the age old "throw me my weapon" mistake. That being said I believe autos are more than protected if we interpret the constitution correctly, disbarment of those arms should follow the same due process as any other firearms. No criminals, involuntary commission to a mental facility, etc. I will grant that I could even accept a simple licensure for full-autos and select fire if it is available to all who may possess firearms and are willing to pass a proficiency test and psych eval. and if the 1986 machine gun ban were to be repealed. I would concede that as a compromise.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 01-07-12 at 12:27 AM.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  7. #437
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I see this isn't about your need to feel equally armed against a raiding horde of heavily armed banditos it's about "boys with toys". I have a good friend who's an ex Special Police (Air Force) and Corrections Officer and he's like you, gun bonkers. He told me once he was guarding a highly sensitive area on a base when in the rain some soldier had drunkenly wandered in. He told the GI to halt and be recognized! The guy didn't hear him and kept going, he repeated Halt and he still kept going, finally he pulled the bolt back on his M16 and the sound had the guy frozen. I ask my friend what would you have done if he kept going after that he said, "I would've unloaded the clip center mass, and never have been the same again." He was a drunk teenage soldier who didn't know where he was and couldn't hear the commands to halt over the rain. But the military wouldn't have cared because he was guarding nukes and they're very serious about that. Yet still my good friend wants a fully automatic AR15 to go with his Hungarian made Browning Hi Power, 357 Colt Python, Desert Eagle .44 mag and heaven knows what else. I trust the dude because he's responsible and trained but I still wouldn't buy him a BFG because he's bananas for weapons. Besides I couldn't afford that stuff.
    If cops my 13 year old son can outshoot (he's been putting up 475 averages in the indoor "glock" league which puts him way up in the final standings) are issued such weapons, I sure should have a right to own a few of them.

    after all police don't have a greater right to use deadly force than you or I do

  8. #438
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'll take this at face value. I don't think restrictions are the answer in the least when it comes to armaments that are within a certain scope of control. This would include cutting weapons, blunt weapons, other hand held, and firearms. I used to be much more lax on things when I was younger but have come around to being fine with things that are provably common sense, I have no problem with "shall issue" CCW requirements due to the fact that many criminals will hide a gun to ambush others, even though most will do so regardless of the law at least there is a basis to add charges should they engage in that cowardly act(this is not a condemnation of concealment in general, rather "conceal to ambush").

    The reason I believe that ordinance can be licensed without issue is due to the blast radius and storage issues, for instance C4 was the preferred explosive of the Marine corps when my cousin was in service. He tells me when it's new it's predictable and a pound can take out a city block, but as it ages it destabalizes and can blow at random. Many explosives are dangerous just by the mere existence thereof and even trained and licensed professionals can have an incident. Thus I believe it has a smaller circle of protection due to these issues.

    The reason I believe all firearms should be legal is that they really can't do any harm sitting in a gun case, as well if some jackass decided to duplicate the Hollywood shootout someone with the right firearms can easily aid the police or NG called out to the scene. The only problems I've truly seen with autos are when someone doesn't take the rideup seriously and ends up throwing wild rounds due to lack of control, but I've seen people do stupid stuff with semi-autos, shotguns, and bolt-actions as well. I actually lost a cousin to the age old "throw me my weapon" mistake. That being said I believe autos are more than protected if we interpret the constitution correctly, disbarment of those arms should follow the same due process as any other firearms. No criminals, involuntary commission to a mental facility, etc. I will grant that I could even accept a simple licensure for full-autos and select fire if it is available to all who may possess firearms and are willing to pass a proficiency test and psych eval. and if the 1986 machine gun ban were to be repealed. I would concede that as a compromise.
    Now that's an intelligent response. The last two lines would be acceptable too me and I hereby with all my powers invested in me by umpa lumpa declare it so. Sorry dudes you're still gonna have to convince a bunch of bureaucratic, lilly loving peaceniks and do gooders. Fortunately I have my protection below ..

    Attachment 67120824
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  9. #439
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If cops my 13 year old son can outshoot (he's been putting up 475 averages in the indoor "glock" league which puts him way up in the final standings) are issued such weapons, I sure should have a right to own a few of them.

    after all police don't have a greater right to use deadly force than you or I do
    Now that's scary. You sound like Kowalski from Gran Torino, "I'll blow a hole in your face and then go in the house... and sleep like a baby. You can count on that."
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #440
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Now that's scary. You sound like Kowalski from Gran Torino, "I'll blow a hole in your face and then go in the house... and sleep like a baby. You can count on that."
    what is scary is people who think that police officers have God Like power and are more trustworthy or competent with weapons than other civlians

    they aren't. If I go to the local target range and pull ten people off the range at random and pull 10 officers out of the station at random I will bet my last dollar the recreational shooters know more about guns, gun safety and can out shoot the cops

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