View Poll Results: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

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  • Yes

    77 91.67%
  • No

    7 8.33%
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Thread: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

  1. #381
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Where are your sources for the statements that far more people have been murdered with gun than used in self defense? Particularly with legal guns. Criminals get, or make guns outside legal sources.
    In 1997 there were 15,690 homicides. Of these, 8,503 were committed with handguns. Among handgun homicides, only 193 (2.3 percent) were classified as justifiable homicides by civilians.
    For every time in 1997 that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.
    source: VPC - Handgun Ban Fact Sheet

    There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths. In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with a type of firearm not specified. Robberies committed with guns are three times as likely to result in fatalities compared with robberies where other weapons were used.
    source: Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Where is your source that the majority who are peaceful and do not wish to carry are having their rights infringed by handgun rights advocates.
    That's obvious. The majority that do not carry would most certainly not like to have someone pull a handgun on them, just ask them.

    The most available source to this post is the starting poll, where 90% are pro second amendment and 10% anti. The forum seems to have a reasonable mix of participants from all sides.
    Yeah, they're pro 2nd amendment as am I, not necessarily pro handgun. Though a majority polled in this country would probably support handgun ownership because as I have stated earlier, they exist and nobody wants someone else to have exclusive control over their rights. I also said "let the courts decide".
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #382
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Well, in 1790 when the 2nd Amendment was adopted along with the rest of the Bill of Rights it said "the right to keep and bear arms". It did not specify what kind and back then pistols were mostly for dueling for the few that could afford them or used in the military, so most likely the right to bear arms was intended for rifles, swords and knives. It's been argued here that the courts should set the necessary and proper test through SCOTUS precedents and case laws. Since handguns are almost exclusively used for shooting humans and concealment in violent crimes and far more people have been murdered with them than used in self defense, let the courts decide if the majority who are peaceful, do not wish to carry a deadly weapon should have their rights infringed upon by the minority of criminals and handgun right advocates.
    If they had intended that we not be allowed the use of handguns, the 2nd Amendment would have an additional statement, something like: “Except for (description of handguns/pistols), which no one is allowed to keep or bear".

    It doesn’t.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  3. #383
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If they had intended that we not be allowed the use of handguns, the 2nd Amendment would have an additional statement, something like: “Except for (description of handguns/pistols), which no one is allowed to keep or bear".

    It doesn’t.
    quoting the VPC on gun issues as our new poster has is akin to quoting Osama Bin Laden on the greatness of America. VPC is not only a dishonest propaganda center, they are aggressive liars

  4. #384
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    If they had intended that we not be allowed the use of handguns, the 2nd Amendment would have an additional statement, something like: “Except for (description of handguns/pistols), which no one is allowed to keep or bear".

    It doesn’t.
    The handgun was a freakin musket loading flintlock that very few owned or could afford. It wasn't an issue at the time because the Peacemaker and Colt 1911 were 100 years away. What was someone gonna do back then, run up to the local WalMart pull out their one shot dueler and say, "Hey, give me all your doubloons and some of that dar Prince Albert in a can". They'd have been beaten like a redheaded stepchild.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  5. #385
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    quoting the VPC on gun issues as our new poster has is akin to quoting Osama Bin Laden on the greatness of America. VPC is not only a dishonest propaganda center, they are aggressive liars
    I imagine anyone I quote short of 'Action America' would be called dishonest. Ever hear this story from the local police "don't keep a handgun in your home for protection because most likely a robber will disarm and shoot you with your own pistola bang, bang"? No sirree I'm gonna listen to the Law, cuzz I don't wanna be shot with my own bang, bang!
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #386
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I imagine anyone I quote short of 'Action America' would be called dishonest. Ever hear this story from the local police "don't keep a handgun in your home for protection because most likely a robber will disarm and shoot you with your own pistola bang, bang"? No sirree I'm gonna listen to the Law, cuzz I don't wanna be shot with my own bang, bang!
    I guess you are not familiar with head asshole Josh Sugarman of the VPC. this is the turd who sent out a paper to left wing media outlets telling them that the public can easily be confused if the MSM would show pictures of machine guns and then push for the banning of assault "weapons"

    He created the hysteria over weapons that were rarely used in crime

    when the Clinton magazine ban was instituted in 1994-partially due to the efforts of asswipe Sugarman, gun makers started making smaller pistols-after all why build a weapon designed to hold 17 rounds when 10 was the legal limit

    Sugartard then started complaining that gun makers were making "pocket rockets" that were "easier to conceal?"

    one of his chief toadies-another schmuck named Tom Diaz is one of the leading liars on "sniper rifles"

    that turd defines sniper rifles so that the term encompasses most big game hunting rifles.



    YOu are clueless about guns grip and just because you are afraid of guns and appear to be unable to handle one properly, please don't project your lack of training onto someone like me. The last mope who tried to disarm me got a 9mm colonoscopy and three years in State Max

  7. #387
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The handgun was a freakin musket loading flintlock that very few owned or could afford. It wasn't an issue at the time because the Peacemaker and Colt 1911 were 100 years away. What was someone gonna do back then, run up to the local WalMart pull out their one shot dueler and say, "Hey, give me all your doubloons and some of that dar Prince Albert in a can". They'd have been beaten like a redheaded stepchild.
    So were all the OTHER firearms. Muzzle loading smoothbore muskets or occasionally rifled muskets that took even longer to load because no one had thought up the Minié ball yet, requiring the user to force the musket ball down into the rifling groves.

    By that measurement, all modern weapons should be banned.

    But as I understand the intent (though I could be wrong), the goal of the 2nd Amendment was to place a check against the possibility of government run amuck.
    Since the military weaponry at the time was also muzzle-loaded and in most respects identical to hunting firearms and such (one of the reasons a revolution succeeded, probably, was that the English forces didn’t have much of an advantage in weapon tech), allowing the people to have those same weapons would provide such.

    By that measure, one could (and some do) argue that all military weaponry should be available for purchase by civilians. Personally, I think owning a nuclear warhead would be unnecessary, unless you’re doing asteroid mining or some such…
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  8. #388
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess you are not familiar with head asshole Josh Sugarman of the VPC. this is the turd who sent out a paper to left wing media outlets telling them that the public can easily be confused if the MSM would show pictures of machine guns and then push for the banning of assault "weapons"

    He created the hysteria over weapons that were rarely used in crime

    when the Clinton magazine ban was instituted in 1994-partially due to the efforts of asswipe Sugarman, gun makers started making smaller pistols-after all why build a weapon designed to hold 17 rounds when 10 was the legal limit

    Sugartard then started complaining that gun makers were making "pocket rockets" that were "easier to conceal?"

    one of his chief toadies-another schmuck named Tom Diaz is one of the leading liars on "sniper rifles"

    that turd defines sniper rifles so that the term encompasses most big game hunting rifles.



    YOu are clueless about guns grip and just because you are afraid of guns and appear to be unable to handle one properly, please don't project your lack of training onto someone like me. The last mope who tried to disarm me got a 9mm colonoscopy and three years in State Max
    I don't believe in that kind of sneaky propaganda or overly restrictive limits either. But that particular info I sourced is all over the Net regardless of the claims on authenticity.

    I am afraid of guns but not exactly clueless about them either. I think the day you don't respect how fast a firearm can send you to the promise land you're in trouble. You don't really know anything about me except the little bits of comments I've made. I could've been a LRRP for all you know.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  9. #389
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I don't believe in that kind of sneaky propaganda or overly restrictive limits either. But that particular info I sourced is all over the Net regardless of the claims on authenticity.

    I am afraid of guns but not exactly clueless about them either. I think the day you don't respect how fast a firearm can send you to the promise land you're in trouble. You don't really know anything about me except the little bits of comments I've made. I could've been a LRRP for all you know.
    there is almost nothing about guns that I am unaware of. Its the sort of knowledge you get growing up in the home of a guy who was the HS national shotgun champion, a college varsity rifle champion, and who hunted all over the world. Me, a few national titles, a bunch of all-american teams, a few olympic trials finals, world championship top 10 finishes, and over 750,000 rounds out of handguns.

    I am not afraid of guns, cars, chain saws, or the 5000 dollar razor sharp hand forged katana that sits by the side of my nightstand. I have a healthy respect for all such tools

  10. #390
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So were all the OTHER firearms. Muzzle loading smoothbore muskets or occasionally rifled muskets that took even longer to load because no one had thought up the Minié ball yet, requiring the user to force the musket ball down into the rifling groves.

    By that measurement, all modern weapons should be banned.

    But as I understand the intent (though I could be wrong), the goal of the 2nd Amendment was to place a check against the possibility of government run amuck.
    Since the military weaponry at the time was also muzzle-loaded and in most respects identical to hunting firearms and such (one of the reasons a revolution succeeded, probably, was that the English forces didn’t have much of an advantage in weapon tech), allowing the people to have those same weapons would provide such.

    By that measure, one could (and some do) argue that all military weaponry should be available for purchase by civilians. Personally, I think owning a nuclear warhead would be unnecessary, unless you’re doing asteroid mining or some such…
    Yeah, but most pistols were for dueling because they had no accuracy or range. All weapons may be banned one day. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks, sound familiar?

    I absolutely agree with your comprehension for the reason of the 2nd Amendment about keeping the government in check. Yep, the Kentucky long rifle helped us beat the Brits with it's range and accuracy. We didn't fight fair either..lol. We kept doing hit and run tactics that flipped their lids.

    No I don't believe in letting people have anything they want though you'd be amazed what they can get their hands on. My only point was there needs to be a combination of allowance and regulation enforcement.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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