View Poll Results: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

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  • Yes

    77 91.67%
  • No

    7 8.33%
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Thread: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

  1. #331
    Sage

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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So, a quick question for TPD and LMR:

    To preface, I know little about firearms, having never fired one in my life (really!), and the only knowledge I have is from reading/listening to people.

    The setting:

    If, for example, I had the option to visit a local gun shop.

    At this gun shop, I was able to submit to a 15-min background check, whereupon I could walk out with a .45 caliber semi-automatic handgun and 500 rounds of ammo for it, of varying types, along with a laser sight attachment, a shoulder holster, and two gun safes, one for my car and one for my place of residence (I’m making this up as I go along, not sure if all this is necessary).

    Granted, this would probably cost me a thousand or so bucks that I don’t have (I only have a vague idea how much these things cost), but we’re talking examples here.

    The question: Is this acceptable to you, and/or what would you prefer went differently
    I would prefer a 24 hour wait period, but that's fine yes.

  2. #332
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Exactly, just like Freedom of Speech can (and should) have limits so can (and should) the Right to Bear Arms. Consequently, the idea that supporting limits is "anti-second amendment" or "anti-gun" is nonsensical. And as I said earlier, hopefully the lawmakers and judges responsible for determining those limits will consult with experts on the particular topic who have the most evidence based arguments.
    a stupid analogy

    speech restriction involves USE, gun restrictions involve POSSESSION

    you cannot scream FIRE in a crowded theater (unless its a movie set or there is a fire)

    You of course POSSESS the ability to scream fire to your heart's content in your own basement, or in the middle of some deserted woods.

    Gun restrictions are akin to saying you can never scream fire

    and everything WRONG you can USE a gun for is ALREADY illegal

  3. #333
    Klattu Verata Nicto
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So, a quick question for TPD and LMR:

    To preface, I know little about firearms, having never fired one in my life (really!), and the only knowledge I have is from reading/listening to people.

    The setting:

    If, for example, I had the option to visit a local gun shop.

    At this gun shop, I was able to submit to a 15-min background check, whereupon I could walk out with a .45 caliber semi-automatic handgun and 500 rounds of ammo for it, of varying types, along with a laser sight attachment, a shoulder holster, and two gun safes, one for my car and one for my place of residence (I’m making this up as I go along, not sure if all this is necessary).

    Granted, this would probably cost me a thousand or so bucks that I don’t have (I only have a vague idea how much these things cost), but we’re talking examples here.

    The question: Is this acceptable to you, and/or what would you prefer went differently
    The only thing is that larger rounds tend to be more expensive, you are going to be spending roughly a buck a bullet, maybe a buck and a half depending on what you get. You don't need 500 for the range unless you plan to spend the day there, ditto for the sights. If it's for defense you don't even really need the laser sight so that's extra expense, I don't know that you need a gun safe for your car, but if the law says you don't why spend the extra $$. As far as I'm concerned the BG check is a compromise but what can you do, if you pass it get what you need.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #334
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I would prefer a 24 hour wait period, but that's fine yes.
    why? do you know that the "heat of passion" is such that you are not in the heat of passion if you actually take time to go to a gun shop and fill out the paper work. The entire reason for a waiting period (other than the HASSLE honest people) was to try to kill off gun shows

  5. #335
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why? do you know that the "heat of passion" is such that you are not in the heat of passion if you actually take time to go to a gun shop and fill out the paper work. The entire reason for a waiting period (other than the HASSLE honest people) was to try to kill off gun shows
    And yet he claims to be "pro-second".
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #336
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    If the intruder has a gun and suprises you - you die whether you have a gun or not. If you can't hit and knock someone down with a rubber bullet or bean bag, a metal bullet wouldn't do you any good either.

    It is in fact known far more likely that shootings in a home most likely 1.) kill your own child 2.) is a child finding your gun and killing him/herself or a friend 3.) Kills a neighbor or friend and 4.) kills your spouse or yourself.

    Also, depending on the state, you can't just kill an 11 year old burglarizing your house. Rubber bullets are a great defense in face of an minor aged, unarmed intruder. In fact, that unarmed intruder actually might still kill you, but if you're an mature adult man and the intruder an unarmed young teenager, a grand jury might not see it as "self defense" but a punitive killing - especially if you shot the kid multiple times with a para-military assault rifle.

    A first-shot rubber bullet gives you more options and time to gather your senses. If you can't defend yourself in your home that way, the fact is you can't defense yourself otherwise.

    As a true LOL, I know a very young, small and seemingly vulnerable fish and wildlife officer who on occasion will come across highly abusive drunk hunters or fisherman who basically become both intimidating, abusive and with her sensing a growing danger to herself being alone in the middle of nowhere with those men armed. She carried two side arms and is well practiced at drawing both. She found that if she pops one in the chest with a rubber 45 while then sighting the others down - that semi-auto adjusted specifically for the recoil of those bullets, and with the "real bullet" gun in her other hand - they become very extra "cooperative."

    It takes a while for them to even figure out she hadn't killed one of them and absolutely believe her then as she shouts "drop your shotguns and get on facedown on the ground or I WILL kill you!" - them believing she just blew one of them away. Yet a real bullet would not be justified nor necessary. Rubber bullets cover that middle ground and allow extra control options and safeguards of either insufficient or excessive action.

    Getting hit by a rubber bullet is like being hit by a sledge hammer.

    You need to really ask yourself is your goal to defend yourself in the way least likely to also avoid innocent death by accident - or do you just want to kill intruders?
    Your post confirms to me you really have almost no-if any-training in this subject. If I have a pistol and you have a rubber bullet gun if you don't hit me in the forehead, the chest or the groin you are gonna die. and remember, you won't be looking for ME with that silly rubber bullet gun, rather you are going to be defending against me-in other words you are gonna be reacting. And I am really fast-like draw and shoot 3 shots in the a pie plate at 10 yards in less than 1.5 seconds. And since I am the hunter, I will have my weapon out in Low ready-now the time is down to .7 or so seconds.

    bad scenario

  7. #337
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    And yet he claims to be "pro-second".

    sort of Like Obama being "pro America"

    In all fairness I don't think the voted that way

  8. #338
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I would prefer a 24 hour wait period, but that's fine yes.
    Seems unnecessarily long.

    What is the purpose of that length of time?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #339
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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Seems unnecessarily long.

    What is the purpose of that length of time?
    1) to impose costs on a would be gun owner involving travel etc

    2) in imposing costs to hassle the would be gun owner hoping to prevent a sale

    3) to make sales at one day gun shows or second day sales at weekend gun shows far less attractive

  10. #340
    Sage

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    Re: Are pro-2nd Amendment?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Seems unnecessarily long.

    What is the purpose of that length of time?
    That's actually a super short wait period. Some go up to 2-3 weeks. In any case, the purpose of a delay period is the rare cases where someone does need to cool off.

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