Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offense?

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

FreedomFromAll said:

Cops do not give people rides without handcuffs, I was told this before by a cop after a wreck.

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that cop lied to you and is a dick IMO because I have been given a ride by a cop

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Objective-J said:

guess what it makes PERFECT sense because this is already how the law works. If I embezzle money and I have a house in only MY name and they take it from me thats exactly what happens they take MY house because I did the crime they dont care who stays there :shrug: lol

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That is a different case. You are talking about if the owner do not fulfill his obligations to the seller/bank. Of course then he can't keep the house, because if we let people do, then we would crush the market and massively increase prices

In my case, the criminal was caught doing a random crime, and as punishment his house is seized. This is a collective punishment for his whole family, not just the criminal.

why am I a suspect?!?!?!? in this case and not the others? maybe everyone in the car KNEW he was driving it illegally? see your inconsistency is showing itself mighty fast.

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Because they have to interview you to check if you are not involved. So you are a suspect.

In the car, only the driver is illegal. No one else will get formal punishments.

your problem is YOU because I dont want a system that cost more LOL thats something you simp[ly made up or are assuming and I dont want third parties punished either nor do I feel they are being punished in this case because they are grown adults not whiny babies.

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Your system definitely cost more. Since, every time you stop a driver without license, you will have to find a towing company to move the car away. To move the car away costs money and it costs money for the police as well.

there you go with the "walking home" drama again

they are not punished, they dont lose anything LIFE is LIFE

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Again, just because they do not formally get punished do not mean they do not get punished. See my example above.

what if dad is the only one that brings home money in the family, they lock him up for rape and now the wife and kids lose the house? guess we should just not punish dad for rape because according to you OTHERS will be punished, please stop this is an adult world we live in.

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Again, you can not completely prevent collective punishment. Sometimes it is necessary. In that case, I would let the government help the family. What i want to do is to limit collective punishment, which you don't seem to care about.

You if you feel those passengers are being punished you know whos fault it is? THE ILLEGAL DRIVER not the cop LMAO

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I didn't say it was anyones else fault. I said it is not fair that third party individuals get punished for other individual actions.

I do not like collective punishment. Hence, I will try to limit collective punishment and seizing the car is completely unnecessary, costs more and punishes third parties for other individual actions.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Camlon said:

That is a different case. You are talking about if the owner do not fulfill his obligations to the seller/bank. Of course then he can't keep the house, because if we let people do, then we would crush the market and massively increase prices

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?????????? do you just make this stuff up? who in the hell said its about his obligations to the bank LMAO I said he committed a monetary crime so they came after his house, so NO its not different, its only different because you WANT it to be because you know it makes your silly punishing extra people logic look silly

Camlon said:

In my case, the criminal was caught doing a random crime, and as punishment his house is seized. This is a collective punishment for his whole family, not just the criminal.

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nope its just punishment to the OWNER of the house, the rest are collateral damage and thats the CRIMINALS fault, not the cop or government or who ever, this is called reality and happens every day, would I want to help them to, yep but they wouldnt get to keep the house

Camlon said:

Because they have to interview you to check if you are not involved. So you are a suspect.

In the car, only the driver is illegal. No one else will get formal punishments.

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wrong maybe the people on the car all knew he was driving illegal, maybe they forced him some how, and they all need interviewed also or at least one who is trying to drive the car.sorry you weak logic ship is sinking fast!!!!!

see isnt it fun to play what if and MAKE UP victims

Camlon said:

Your system definitely cost more. Since, every time you stop a driver without license, you will have to find a towing company to move the car away. To move the car away costs money and it costs money for the police as well. .

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WRONG again its not "my system" it is the current system in place nor have I ever stated tow every car LOL again do you just make this stuff up on the fly or do you actually think about it?

NEXT

Camlon said:

Again, just because they do not formally get punished do not mean they do not get punished. See my example above.


Again, you can not completely prevent collective punishment. Sometimes it is necessary. In that case, I would let the government help the family. What i want to do is to limit collective punishment, which you don't seem to care about.

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ooooh so in your pretend system its ok if the government spends tons of money and it cost more in YOUR cases but not in the real system that is in place now? LOL wow dude the hypocrisy here is astounding, dont spend money on towing but spend money on keeping a whole family a float, got it

also I care tons about collective punishment I just dont buy you weak non-adult unreality based definition of collective punishment because it could cover EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING people cry about

Camlon said:

I didn't say it was anyone else fault. I said it is not fair that third party individuals get punished for other individual actions.

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they are not being punished Ive already proved this unless they are whiny children

Camlon said:

I do not like collective punishment. Hence, I will try to limit collective punishment and seizing the car is completely unnecessary, costs more and punishes third parties for other individual actions.

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you are 100% wrong it may be VERY necessary to make sure that person doesnt break the law again and who endanger people, but I guess we cant make up stories about how this guy might go home drive again that night and kill some one, we can only make up stories about how people may have to walk home and miss an important meeting LOL

Please start dealing in adult reality and not fantasy land, a cops job is hard enough and criminals get away with enough already, im all for avoiding collective punishment but it has to be REAL not whiny skinned knee look at me look at me a victim BS.

im done beating up all your little scenarios simply explain to me how the passengers are punished in reality, something that actually MATTERS that doesnt happen all the time, you havent done this once yet

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Objective-J said:

?????????? do you just make this stuff up? who in the hell said its about his obligations to the bank LMAO I said he committed a monetary crime so they came after his house, so NO its not different, its only different because you WANT it to be because you know it makes your silly punishing extra people logic look silly

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First, please calm down. This is just ridiculous. If you do a monetary crime, you are not forced to sell your house. You are forced to pay, and if you don't have enough money then you will have to sell your house.

This might be bad for the rest of the family, but as I said I want to limit third party damage. Not eliminate it.

nope its just punishment to the OWNER of the house, the rest are collateral damage and thats the CRIMINALS fault, not the cop or government or who ever, this is called reality and happens every day, would I want to help them to, yep but they wouldnt get to keep the house

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Don't come with this reality bull****. I don't like your "screw them" attitude. I want to create a fair system.

Yes it is the criminals fault, hence you should not punish any one else apart from the criminal. Sometimes this is impossible, but we should try to avoid it when possible.

wrong maybe the people on the car all knew he was driving illegal, maybe they forced him some how, and they all need interviewed also or at least one who is trying to drive the car.sorry you weak logic ship is sinking fast!!!!!

see isnt it fun to play what if and MAKE UP victims

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Except that I talk about likely scenarios. Many people are likely to be stuck if you tow the car away. Your scenario is a 1 in a 10000 scenario.

WRONG again its not "my system" it is the current system in place nor have I ever stated tow every car LOL again do you just make this stuff up on the fly or do you actually think about it?

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You said that every single time someone get caught without a lisence then the car should be towed away. If that is a problem for the passenger, then screw them.

ooooh so in your pretend system its ok if the government spends tons of money and it cost more in YOUR cases but not in the real system that is in place now? LOL wow dude the hypocrisy here is astounding, dont spend money on towing but spend money on keeping a whole family a float, got it

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Yeah, guess what. I want the government to spend money when it is necessary (helping families in finacial needs) and not when it is unnecessary (towing a car away that can be driven by someone else)

you are 100% wrong it may be VERY necessary to make sure that person doesnt break the law again and who endanger people, but I guess we cant make up stories about how this guy might go home drive again that night and kill some one, we can only make up stories about how people may have to walk home and miss an important meeting LOL

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Except it won't make any difference. The person can drive again, but under "my system" then he would end up in prison if he was caught again. Also, even if the car gets towed away, then he can go and get the car again and drive again illegally. There is no difference.

Please start dealing in adult reality and not fantasy land, a cops job is hard enough and criminals get away with enough already, im all for avoiding collective punishment but it has to be REAL not whiny skinned knee look at me look at me a victim BS.

im done beating up all your little scenarios simply explain to me how the passengers are punished in reality, something that actually MATTERS that doesnt happen all the time, you havent done this once yet

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My system will work better. I am in reality, but you seemed to obsessed with your deal with it, that's reality bull****. For me it seems like you want collective punishment, because you believe the passengers should be punished as well.

If you didn't then explain all the name calling.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Camlon said:

First, please calm down. This is just ridiculous. If you do a monetary crime, you are not forced to sell your house. You are forced to pay, and if you don't have enough money then you will have to sell your house.

This might be bad for the rest of the family, but as I said I want to limit third party damage. Not eliminate it. .

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WRONG!!!!!! if you do a montary crime they very much can come after you property!!! lol

Camlon said:

Don't come with this reality bull****. I don't like your "screw them" attitude. I want to create a fair system.

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reality isnt BS its REAL, YOU just dont like it.
I have ZERO screw you attitude I just deal in reality and the system IS fair, you want it to be sunshine and rainbows and thats not reality lol

Camlon said:

Yes it is the criminals fault, hence you should not punish any one else apart from the criminal. Sometimes this is impossible, but we should try to avoid it when possible.

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I agree WHEN possible and if its REALITY and COMMON SENSE based not furry rainbow based

Camlon said:

Except that I talk about likely scenarios. Many people are likely to be stuck if you tow the car away. Your scenario is a 1 in a 10000 scenario

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LMAO why do you make stuff up my scenarios are just as likely in REALITY you just dont like them because they shoot holes in your logic

are you seriously saying that the passengers are LIKELY to not have a phone and or service, the cop will be to busy to drive them anywhere or there wont be cab service and they will need to be somewhere very important that isnt already impacted because they wont be leaving fast anyway, riiiiiiiiiiiiight lol

oh and I forget they will be made to walk

again I deal in REALITY lol

Camlon;1060071962You said that every single time someone get caught without a lisence then the car should be towed away. If that is a problem for the passenger said:

100% false and a lie, wow now you are REALLY desperate

Camlon said:

Yeah, guess what. I want the government to spend money when it is necessary (helping families in finacial needs) and not when it is unnecessary (towing a car away that can be driven by someone else)

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translation government is only to be spent on what YOU approve of nobody else and if you want to attack another system for costing more money its ok even if your system will cost 10x more money

wow what a joke lol

Camlon said:

Except it won't make any difference. The person can drive again, but under "my system" then he would end up in prison if he was caught again. Also, even if the car gets towed away, then he can go and get the car again and drive again illegally. There is no difference.

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wow you dont live in reality do you? I dont think ive ran into somebody so dishonest. he cant drive THAT car again if its impounded or if he is going to jail LOL

theres a HUGE difference if he gets out of jail in couple hours and his car is waiting for him or if its impounded

Camlon said:

My system will work better. I am in reality, but you seemed to obsessed with your deal with it, that's reality bull****. For me it seems like you want collective punishment, because you believe the passengers should be punished as well.

If you didn't then explain all the name calling.

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name calling who??????? not you the cry baby passengers that are playing the victim card
reality is THE PASSENGERS ARE NOT PUNISHED

i have asked you many times now how they are punished in reality and you haven't giving me anything

not allowing them to drive a car that is not theirs and was just used in a crime is not punishment to any logical reality based person, sorry

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Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

You know what, I am done with you. I have given you plenty of argumentation. You seem to not be able to respond in a calm matter and you flame everyone who do not share the screw everyone attitude. I am bored with your, that is reality statements. Do you get to define reality? I am bored with your screw everyone attitude. I actually care about people, and that does not make me sunshine and rainbows. It means I have a heart, which you don't. You don't seem to be able to thing rationally either, as you have a hard time understanding that the system you advocate would increase costs as it costs money to get a towing company, punish third parties and not prevent car deaths because people can take back their seized car and drive again without a lisence.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Camlon said:

You know what, I am done with you. I have given you plenty of argumentation. You seem to not be able to respond in a calm matter. I am bored with your, that is reality statements. Do you get to define reality? I am bored with your screw everyone attitude. I actually care about people, and that does not make me sunshine and rainbows. It means I have a heart, which you don't. You don't seem to be able to thing rationally either, as you have a hard time understanding that the system you advocate would increase costs as it costs money to get a towing company, punish third parties and not prevent car deaths because people can take back their seized car and drive again without a lisence.

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be done all you want, be bored all you want, its not my fault you want to ignore reality and can't show me the reality of how they are punished LOL

its fine by me but feel free to keep making things up, while not being able to back it up ONE SINGLE BIT lol im starting to think you are young

i care about people to and have a huge heart i just wont treat them like kids they are adults

let me know when you can actually answer my question lol

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Objective-J said:

be done all you want, be bored all you want, its not my fault you want to ignore reality and can't show me the reality of how they are punished LOL

its fine by me but feel free to keep making things up, while not being able to back it up ONE SINGLE BIT lol im starting to think you are young

i care about people to and have a huge heart i just wont treat them like kids they are adults

let me know when you can actually answer my question lol

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I have responded to your questions many times. And stop the hyperbole. Making sure that other people are not affected by a punishment, is not treating them like kids, it is a way to make a fair society.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Camlon said:

I have responded to your questions many times. And stop the hyperbole. Making sure that other people are not affected by a punishment, is not treating them like kids, it is a way to make a fair society.

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oh the irony, you have not answered ONCE and the hyperbole is claiming its "unfair" to not let a person drive a car that is NOT theirs and was just used in a crime LMAO

now answer the question with logic and reality based support or move on.

I will ask you again, tell me why its "unfair" <sniff> <sniff> to not allow a person to drive a car that doesnt belong to them and was just used in a crime LMAO

especially since they can call for a ride/friend/family, call for a taxi, walk to a bus stop, get a ride from the cop at least to a public place if not all the way of have the cop radio in a ride?

sounds MORE than fair to me, but no you want a person to be given a car that is not theirs and was just used in a crime lol on the "very common chance" (sarcasm) that these people are going to be late for some life changing experience and you feel they will be punished. Sorry thats beyond fair thats illogical and unreality based. What happens if the person who drives the car that isnt theirs wrecks it? whos punished then? is that fair? what if it wasnt even the criminals car, what if it was his wifes or moms? So lets just give this car over to someone else without permission of the owner, thats brilliant.

Sorry cops have enough to worry about without adults crying like 12yr olds and the law in this case is fair to reality based adults

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

I'm assuming the cop has called it in to make sure it's not a licensed driver who just forgot to bring his or her license. I voted to allow a licensed driver to drive the car home if available. No sense wasting resources on towing if it's not necessary.

The unlicensed driver will have his or her day in court.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Objective-J said:

...
towing away a car that belongs to the person that broke the law is SINGULAR punishment, and expense is of no concern to me since that person broke the law
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Thank you for proving me right.

"since that person broke the law" shows you presume guilt as opposed to innocence. At the time of arrest they are only a suspect. It is up to the courts to determine guilt or innocence.

your words: "towing away a car that belongs to the person that broke the law is SINGULAR punishment"
Since you actually define the towing of the vehicle as a punishment against the driver. You are punishing them before they have a chance to defend themselves in court and that is the very definition of a violation of due process.

In your reality it is apparent that people are guilty until proven innocent.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

This eternal nitpicking is getting beyond silly. You are stopped while driving a car, and have no licence to do so. You have been caught in the act. It's hard to imagine a scenario where anyone could be more evidently guilty. QED. The police are empowered to give fixed penalties for motoring offences such as this. One such "penalty" is having your car towed to prevent further offences from being committed. Apart from the poor likelihood that a licensed passenger is also insured to drive your car, allowing them to do so open up the possibility that you will switch places with them once the cops have left the scene. Towing ensures that the car and driver are both legal before they are reunited.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

DiAnna said:

Driving is a privelege, not a right. Unlicensed drivers have no business being on the road. They are unlicensed for a reason. Either they are too young to apply for a valid DL, they are too stupid to pass the tests for a valid DL, or their license has been suspended for cause. Whatever the reason, they are a danger to other drivers on the road.

Yes, the vehicle should be towed, and the unlicensed driver should be immediately cited.

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You need to have a valid license to have insurance which means that if the friver is unlicensed, the car is uninsured even though the policy is paid.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

justabubba said:

vehicles driven by an unlicensed driver - and those driven by someone under the influence - should be held as evidence
once the trial is concluded and the driver is found to have prevailed, then they get their vehicle back
if they are found guilty, they get their car back after paying whatever fine is imposed

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The government does not own impound lots, they are private businesses.

If the impound lot is charging $30.00 or more per day, how can a person reasonably get his car back if the case drags on for 6 months or more?

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

justabubba said:

no
the authorities would have to sell the vehicle at public auction
proceeds remaining - if any - after cost of the sale and the payment of outstanding obligations would be returned to the former owner of the now sold vehicle

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If the owner requests the overage, which most people don't or don't know they can.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

earthworm said:

These people are poor to begin with and are made more poor by these charges..
There must be another way that is fair, yet effective...
Education is the answer.

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Are you kidding with this?

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Swit said:

Thank you for proving me right.

"since that person broke the law" shows you presume guilt as opposed to innocence. At the time of arrest they are only a suspect. It is up to the courts to determine guilt or innocence.

your words: "towing away a car that belongs to the person that broke the law is SINGULAR punishment"
Since you actually define the towing of the vehicle as a punishment against the driver. You are punishing them before they have a chance to defend themselves in court and that is the very definition of a violation of due process.

In your reality it is apparent that people are guilty until proven innocent.

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This is just silly. But I guess it started with defining towing the unlicensed driver's car as punishment. That's an unintended consequence of towing the car, isn't it? Inconvenience in the face of arrest. Too bad. And let me understand. In your world, an unlicensed driver should get a ticket for driving without a license and then be allowed to drive merrily away. After all, by your logic, he hasn't been found guilty yet. ??

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Manc Skipper said:

Apart from the poor likelihood that a licensed passenger is also insured to drive your car, allowing them to do so open up the possibility that you will switch places with them once the cops have left the scene. Towing ensures that the car and driver are both legal before they are reunited.

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I presume the driver will be sent to the police station, so I don't think that is a big worry.

I don't know how common it is in America, but in most countries insurance cover anyone fully licensed that you allow to drive your car.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Swit said:

Well, you are correct. It's not per se. But consider the situation where the unlicensed driver is not the registered owner of the vehicle in question. By summarily taking possession of the vehicle they could in fact be violating someone else's constitutionally protected right against unreasonable seizures, and there have in fact been cases filed against the city of Chicago regarding this very situation. I never followed up on them, so I cannot say how the courts ruled, if they even agreed to hear the case at all.

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Allowing an unlicensed driver to drive your car is a crime in many states.

The owner of the car is responsible for what happens to his car and if the car is stopped with an unlicensed driver driving it, the owner has the option of saying that person stole the car, if not, the owner is responsible for the unlicensed drivers actions.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Swit said:

My point was that teenagers often try to hide the fact that they have gotten in trouble from their parents. Here in Illinois, I believe 3 moving violations in a 12 month period can result in a suspension of a driver's license and only the driver gets notified... NOT their parents. Further I can envision a situation where a teenager in this situation may risk driving as opposed to admitting to their parents that their license is in fact suspended. THUS, the only absolute way a parent (or anyone for that matter) can actually KNOW unequivocally that someone is legal to drive is by obtaining a current abstract from the DMV. Sure... its definitely possible to do this each and every time you want to allow someone to borrow your car.... just unreasonable.

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With knowledge or not the parent is responsible for the actions of a 16 year old.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Swit said:

You obviously either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote.... it says absolutely nothing about you are ranting about.... here it is in summation:
1. Children are sometimes dishonest.
2. The state is under no obligation to report the child's DL status to the parent upon suspension.
2. The only way to absolutely ensure that your child's DL is valid is via DMV abstract.
3. Other family members should not be denied their means of transportation to and from work, means of grocery retrieval, etc... because of the irresponsible actions of a dishonest kid.

I seriously have no idea how you read any of what you are ranting about in what I wrote.

Where did I say "junior" shouldn't be caught?
Where did I say parents didn't need to know?
Yes your insurance rates would go up but I guarantee there is some time interval between "junior's" suspension and the rate hike thus there would be some time interval where a parent might not know.
A lot of families, at least here in Chicago, have "family" vehicles because that is all they can afford and the additional cost of freeing the vehicle from impound could potentially impact housing and/or food for the rest of the family.
No where did I suggest that they be given a break... only that the other family members should not be impacted as a result of their immaturity.

In essence the punishment for driving without a license should not include arbitrarily punishing other members of the same family who do in fact use the vehicle in a legal and responsible manner... i.e. mandatory seizure of said vehicle

I seriously am dumbfounded as how you could have possibly read any of that stuff you were going on about in what I posted.

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You are asking too much of an officer of the law.

It is not for him to investigate every persons circumstances. It is his job to protect other peoples right to drive on roads with licensed drivers and if an unlicensed driver is found, the car is impounded.

Why are you arguing that poor people should have special rights that others don't.

If a family cannot afford to maintain a vehicle, and that is everything that goes with it, they should not have it.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

peepnklown said:

For example, California Constitution Article 1 Section 7(a) says, ‘a personal may not be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of the law…’
So, an officer on the side of the road is due process of the law?

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That does not supercede public safety.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Mason66 said:

With knowledge or not the parent is responsible for the actions of a 16 year old.

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No, in most states a parent must be found negligent. That could extend, of course, to letting your 16-year-old unlicensed son drive your car, though. If he had a bad accident, the other side would own their home.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

radcen said:

In the US, the vehicle is insured, not the driver. Though rates are generally calculated with the driver's driving record in mind. Generally, of course, there are exceptions to the general rule.

Going OT: Personally, I'd like to change the way we do it. I'd prefer that drivers buy their own liability insurance that would cover them regardless any vehicle they drive (as long as it is the same vehicle class that they are licensed for). Then, if the owner of the vehicle wants insurance on the vehicle, that's up to them to purchase separately.

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I agree. If a man has 2 or say 100 cars, he can only drive one a at a time anyway so why should he have to insure all of them just to sit there.

Re: Should unlicensed drivers have their vehicles towed when pulled over for an offen

Objective-J said:

i understand it fine I want to know how YOU get to decide one is due and another isnt LOL

you have no licenses, it your car, it gets towed, the due process comes when you go to trail, NOTHING is lost

its just like a gun license, you dont have one, bye bye gun
no restaurant license? cant serve food and restaurant is shut done

etc etc etc

so what do YOU suggest should happen. I pull one guy over, he has no license and I verify in the system, now what?

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You can say nothing is lost but with a $250.00 towing fee and $30.00 (low) a day for storage, it isn't hard to see that a lot of people will never be able to get thier car out of the pound.