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Freedom vs Safety

Freedom vs Safety: Which do you value most?


  • Total voters
    39
I value both, since I wouldn't want to live in a world without either.
 
Humans being human. There's lots of stupidity out there, like trading freedom for perceived safety.

Who's talking about perceived safety, Ikari? I know the world is much safer the more of these idiots we take off the street. Take the OWS individuals (please!!!)... we'd all be a lot safer if they were locked up and the key thrown away.
 
Whereas I feel much safer when others are restrained from making the stupid decisions that they so often make.

That is like restraining gravity. Good luck restraining stupid people from being stupid.
 
I value both equally. However, technology is changing the world so much that we may NEED to sacrifice some freedom to achieve safety, that was not that way in the past.

Originally, cavemen fought with fists and rocks, and one man could only kill one man at a time (also true with swords), when the opponent was up close. Bow's extended mans reach so he could kill people farther away, and have time to reload and fire, and one could kill several before they got to him. Firearms extended the reach, and repeating firearms the rapidity with which one could kill. Airplanes and bomb technology has progressed so one can kill hundreds and even thousands, from quite a distance.

Add the threats of chemical, biological, and simple nuclear devices (dirty bomb), and one person, with easily concealed weapons, can kill thousands, and YOU MAY NOT EVEN KNOW WHO THE ATTACKER WAS!

This recent development augers for a change in the rules of freedom. We have all surrendered some of our freedom. When we go on an airplane, none of us "just wanted to get x-rayed and take our shoes off" for the fun of it, but we have to prevent terrorists with weapons from getting on planes (although a terrorist in an airport terminal with high capacity semi auto or full auto weapons opening fire before going through the xray machine would be a disappointing day). The only way I see to try to ward off WMD attacks is increased spying on terror suspects (foreign or domestic). To say we have a wide open society with no controls in this day when one person with WMD can kill hundreds or thousands does not make sense to me. It does place an expensive unproductive drag on the society, but what are we going to do instead?
 
That is like restraining gravity. Good luck restraining stupid people from being stupid.

There's a very simple way. Very small lead injections at the first sign of stupidity. Found to be 100% effective in ensuring they don't do it again, when properly applied.
 
There's a very simple way. Very small lead injections at the first sign of stupidity. Found to be 100% effective in ensuring they don't do it again, when properly applied.

So now everyone is dead. Great job.
 
Who's talking about perceived safety, Ikari? I know the world is much safer the more of these idiots we take off the street. Take the OWS individuals (please!!!)... we'd all be a lot safer if they were locked up and the key thrown away.

OWS? Please, they didn't really do that much against other people not in their camp. As a society we are no more safe with or without OWS. Perceived safety, here's you trying to throw away the right to assemble and protest because you perceive some increase in safety which isn't there.
 
There's a very simple way. Very small lead injections at the first sign of stupidity. Found to be 100% effective in ensuring they don't do it again, when properly applied.

I find your arguments to be overall incredibly stupid, so will you go first and safe the rest of us? Please.
 
Can't be any worse than what we have NOW, Henrin.

You said at the first sign of being stupid. Considering that everyone is stupid once in a while you have to kill everyone including yourself.
 
OWS? Please, they didn't really do that much against other people not in their camp. As a society we are no more safe with or without OWS. Perceived safety, here's you trying to throw away the right to assemble and protest because you perceive some increase in safety which isn't there.

In the City of Boston alone they cost Taxpayers more than $2,000,000 in damages and other costs to deal with their ridiculous protest. That's $2 Million the City has to come up with from somewhere. Additionally, any number of their "actions" caused massive traffic and other commuter delays as they forced the closing of streets and the detouring of traffic. If nothing the FISCAL safety of these communities was reduced. Then you think about all the LEO's who spent their time at the Occupy Boston site rather than out doing their regular jobs.
 
You said at the first sign of being stupid. Considering that everyone is stupid once in a while you have to kill everyone including yourself.

Yep, and at this point that's probably the best thing for this planet. The total extermination of the Human Race, which has proven that it has absolutely no value left to its existance.
 
anyone who thinks safety concerns can never be used to trump "freedom", is an Anarchist.
 
anyone who thinks safety concerns can never be used to trump "freedom", is an Anarchist.

Which you couldn't support earlier.
 
In the City of Boston alone they cost Taxpayers more than $2,000,000 in damages and other costs to deal with their ridiculous protest. That's $2 Million the City has to come up with from somewhere. Additionally, any number of their "actions" caused massive traffic and other commuter delays as they forced the closing of streets and the detouring of traffic. If nothing the FISCAL safety of these communities was reduced. Then you think about all the LEO's who spent their time at the Occupy Boston site rather than out doing their regular jobs.

It cost some money, that's not safety. Hell they cost us less than Bush/Obama have cost us on undeclared foreign wars.
 
anyone who thinks safety concerns can never be used to trump "freedom", is an Anarchist.

Only through liberal use of hyperbole and intellectual dishonesty. The statement in the OP was so vague, we could only answer in the general sense anyway.
 
It cost some money, that's not safety. Hell they cost us less than Bush/Obama have cost us on undeclared foreign wars.

Money can most definitely be safety; especially in this sort of situation. They also cost us the services of LEO's who were required to police their asses rather than being out dealing with other things.

As for those foreign wars, I agree. We should have just CARPET NUKED Afghanistan and Iraq and been done with it by the 15th of September, 2001.
 
Money can most definitely be safety; especially in this sort of situation. They also cost us the services of LEO's who were required to police their asses rather than being out dealing with other things.

Cost of freedom. Better than the alternative.

As for those foreign wars, I agree. We should have just CARPET NUKED Afghanistan and Iraq and been done with it by the 15th of September, 2001.

Yeah...that certainly would have no blowback.
 
Cost of freedom. Better than the alternative.

On that we will have to totally disagree.

Yeah...that certainly would have no blowback.

Don't start a fight you are not both willing to and capable of winning. A bit of wisdom I was taught early in life and that the US Military/Government would be well off to take much more to heart.
 
On that we will have to totally disagree.

Of course. It's long been established that my goal is the proliferation of freedom, while yours is the institutionalization of freedom. Maybe you should just pull up stakes and move to China or some other commie country and tell me how well slavery works for you.

Don't start a fight you are not both willing to and capable of winning. A bit of wisdom I was taught early in life and that the US Military/Government would be well off to take much more to heart.

Indeed, and nuking some country in that region would have negative consequences. We'd see a real rise in terrorism against us. This problem cannot be solved through genocide.
 
Of course. It's long been established that my goal is the proliferation of freedom, while yours is the institutionalization of freedom. Maybe you should just pull up stakes and move to China or some other commie country and tell me how well slavery works for you.

Not a fan of Communism. Just Authoritarianism. If I could find such a nation, I'd be there very quickly.

Indeed, and nuking some country in that region would have negative consequences. We'd see a real rise in terrorism against us. This problem cannot be solved through genocide.

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that we're not already at war with every other nation in the world. We take a body blow every day that crap from these foreign countries crosses our borders and American citizens buy it. We take a head shot every time another American company opens business in other countries and/or ships even a single job overseas. I'm a Nationalist and an Isolationist. If we can't do it or make it here, WE DON'T NEED IT.
 
Not a fan of Communism. Just Authoritarianism. If I could find such a nation, I'd be there very quickly.

Commie countries are a perfect example of authoritarianism and unchecked government. With any form of extremely authoritative state, you'll always get something similar to the Commie countries. So commrad, go and run the experiment. Come back and tell us how much you actually enjoy slavery.

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that we're not already at war with every other nation in the world. We take a body blow every day that crap from these foreign countries crosses our borders and American citizens buy it. We take a head shot every time another American company opens business in other countries and/or ships even a single job overseas. I'm a Nationalist and an Isolationist. If we can't do it or make it here, WE DON'T NEED IT.

Those are not reasons for war.
 
Commie countries are a perfect example of authoritarianism and unchecked government. With any form of extremely authoritative state, you'll always get something similar to the Commie countries. So commrad, go and run the experiment. Come back and tell us how much you actually enjoy slavery.

No they are not, because their form of Authoritarianism is based on a totally incorrect social structure. I'm looking for something much closer to Robert Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" universe.

Those are not reasons for war.

So far as I'm concerned the ONLY foreign policy of the US should be this..... "No American Citizen will have anything to do with any person or country outside of the borders of the United States. Anyone from outside of those borders who attempts to contact or otherwise influence any person or other interest inside the US will immediately forfeit their life to the military might of the United States."
 
No they are not, because their form of Authoritarianism is based on a totally incorrect social structure. I'm looking for something much closer to Robert Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" universe.

So in pursuit of your fictional government which would never exist on the level and in the way it did in that book, you seek to take my freedom and liberty. Remember when you said that stupid people should be put down at the first sign of stupid? Are you willing to go adhere to your own policy?

So far as I'm concerned the ONLY foreign policy of the US should be this..... "No American Citizen will have anything to do with any person or country outside of the borders of the United States. Anyone from outside of those borders who attempts to contact or otherwise influence any person or other interest inside the US will immediately forfeit their life to the military might of the United States."

Your own irrationalities are not proper reason to use government force against the rights and liberties of others.
 
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