• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Was the War in Iraq worth it?

Was the War in Iraq worth it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 19.6%
  • No

    Votes: 86 80.4%

  • Total voters
    107
...by people you knew were on your side and wouldn't allow any real harm to come to you.
Ehhh, I wasn't so sure lol. You'd be surprised how realistic it gets. Lets put it this way. It isn't in a controlled environment and the guy doing it doesn't have an American accent. Its not fun, to say the least.
 
...by people you knew were on your side and wouldn't allow any real harm to come to you.

After about three days in that training, you begin to wonder who's on your side. I can't explain it to you, believe me.
 
As have I. It isn't that bad:lamo

Those who do the training, those who crreated the training, say clearly and have said so in testimney, that what you received is not the same thing. It was to prepare you for TORTURE. They did not do what would happen to you if you were facing the real thing.

As for you not getting facts, again, tell yourself what you have to. But that doesn't change the facts, or make what you say true.
 
Those who do the training, those who crreated the training, say clearly and have said so in testimney, that what you received is not the same thing. It was to prepare you for TORTURE. They did not do what would happen to you if you were facing the real thing.

As for you not getting facts, again, tell yourself what you have to. But that doesn't change the facts, or make what you say true.
my Christmas wish
the opportunity to personally waterboard those who insist they have experienced it and found it not to be torture
and to videotape those efforts for posting

alas, santa is as real as their professions
 
the opportunity to personally waterboard

I am also pro-waterboarding, though I have no personal desire to do it to someone else (I thnk that's a lil' messed up).
 
Last edited:
I am also pro-waterboarding.

that comes as NO surprise
but to your certain disappointment, this thread is not about you
 
Let's see ... Iraq has a tremendous crime rate, on a daily base, more than 100 people get murdered. The standard of living is horrid, due to massive crime and corruption. The different ethnic/religious factions are not united, but there are strong tensions which might likely result in civil war, once the US are out. Chances are the Shia majority will lean towards Iran, making Iraq a new strong ally for Iran and possibly start oppressing the Sunnis.

Although more civilians have died since 2003 in Iraq than during 25 years of Saddam's rule, and although crime is rampant, maybe the new freedom is worth it for the Iraqi people, although even this is questionable (freedom won't fill your belly, and it will not protect you from robbers and extremists murdering you either).

But even if Iraqis might say it was worth it, was it really worth it for us in the West?

The mission has costed more than 1.3 trillion $US, IIRC. And the result doesn't look much better, rather worse than what you got in the Arab countries which toppled their governments recently. The standing of the US was severely damaged, and for good reason. And geostrategically, not much was won (see Iran). And we're bitterly missing the money that was burnt on Iraqi sand now (just think what you could do with additional 1.3 trillion these days).

So no, it was not worth it, IMO.
 
that comes as NO surprise
but to your certain disappointment, this thread is not about you

Oh come on, they went back for it two, three or more times. That proves they liked it, wanted it and were provoking it.
 
Those 75 who state that the Iraq War was "worth it" do not place much value on human life, do they???
 
I voted no for many reasons, but chief among them is the hubris of thinking we could change a culture from without. That change has to come from within. All we have done is to remove the cork from the bottle, and what comes bubbling out has everything to do with who they are and little to do with their wanting to be like us.
 
Let's see ... Iraq has a tremendous crime rate, on a daily base, more than 100 people get murdered. The standard of living is horrid, due to massive crime and corruption. The different ethnic/religious factions are not united, but there are strong tensions which might likely result in civil war, once the US are out. Chances are the Shia majority will lean toward Iran, making Iraq a new strong ally for Iran and possibly start oppressing the Sunnis.

Although more civilians have died since 2003 in Iraq than during 25 years of Saddam's rule, and although crime is rampant, maybe the new freedom is worth it for the Iraqi people, although even this is questionable (freedom won't fill your belly, and it will not protect you from robbers and extremists murdering you either).

But even if Iraqis might say it was worth it, was it really worth it for us in the West?

The mission has cost more than 1.3 trillion $US, IIRC. And the result doesn't look much better, rather worse than what you got in the Arab countries which toppled their governments recently. The standing of the US was severely damaged, and for good reason. And geostrategically, not much was won (see Iran). And we're bitterly missing the money that was burnt on Iraqi sand now (just think what you could do with additional 1.3 trillion these days).

So no, it was not worth it, IMO.
I "like" your argument, GermanGuy.
We will never see that 1.3 trillion again, nor will we see our 4,400 men again.
The Iraqis may have lost ten times that and I am certain they will remember, much the same as we do.
But, here is my problem, after WW2, we supposedly had unprecedented propersity...
This time around, its unprecedented unemployment ???
BTW, I do not trust our media, so I am guessing about things...
 
Imperial? Didn't I just read that we're leaving? Maybe I'm confused.
In truth, we are not leaving Iraq. Thousands of civilian contractors are in place, possibly permanently. We have never left anyplace on this blue green planet...that I know of..
Call it "imperial", if you wish, I call it human nature.
And our military is simply moving to Kuwait and/or other next door nations.....
 
I voted no for many reasons, but chief among them is the hubris of thinking we could change a culture from without. That change has to come from within. All we have done is to remove the cork from the bottle, and what comes bubbling out has everything to do with who they are and little to do with their wanting to be like us.

We changed the bottle.
 
Those 75 who state that the Iraq War was "worth it" do not place much value on human life, do they???
If we had gained something demonstrable, then I'd say 'yes', but I cannot say that we have gained anything like that.

Really, this begs the question: What did we gain?


In truth, we are not leaving Iraq. Thousands of civilian contractors are in place, possibly permanently. We have never left anyplace on this blue green planet...that I know of..
Call it "imperial", if you wish, I call it human nature.
And our military is simply moving to Kuwait and/or other next door nations.....
Civilian contractors aren't the same question.
 
Last edited:
385 casualties in the Spanish American war?:shock: how did they manage that?
Short and sweet, the way a war should be....
But I favor that war should NOT be...for this dream, we need a better people.
This will come....in time.
 
To all those that profit from a long, nine year war, that we had no business being involved in, in the first place, then it was most certainly worth it. However, if you were one of our soldiers wounded or killed, or that of their loved ones who will forever live out the rest of their lives without their soldier in it, then it definitely was not worth it.
 
justabubba, et al,

I started out in the business with a tour in Vietnam. Over the last decade, I've spent seven years in the Middle East/Persian Gulf, including Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen. If there is one constant that I have observed, it is that the policy makers and those in senior leadership positions rarely (almost never) admit to a bad decision.

and replaced it with what, exactly?
(PREFACE)

If you sit and smoke a cigar with them, you will take notice that the staff of these senior leaders are very loyal to their boss and the direction they take in the administration of forces and policy. Whether is be General Sanchez, Casey, Petraeus, Odenero or Austin, I noticed that each staff saw the situation as evolving and completely different from the decision sets expected from the previous CJTF-7/MNF-I/USF-I commander. Every single decision that was made, somehow, was justified, rational, and valid under the circumstances and context for which they were made.

It boils down to, we did what we did, because that was the best course of action available at the time. And you will never be able to convince them otherwise.

(COMMENT)

To the question: What kind of Government did we leave behind? Does it differ from the Government of Saddam Hussein?

The answer comes with mixed reviews. In the first 72 hours, of rule without US Military in place, we see this:

In a nationally televised news conference, the vice president, Tariq al-Hashimi, blamed the Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki for using the country’s security forces to persecute political opponents, specifically Sunnis.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/w...r-in-iraq-denies-ordering-assassinations.html

As compared to this:

Saddam Hussein "used an extensive secret-police establishment to suppress any internal opposition to his rule, and he made himself the object of an extensive personality cult among the Iraqi public. His goals as president were to supplant Egypt as leader of the Arab world and to achieve hegemony over the Persian Gulf."

Source: Saddam Hussein Biography - Facts, Birthday, Life Story - Biography.com

There are some similarities, to be sure. BUT, it it what the US originally envisioned? The US over time and with each successive setback, adjusts it vision to meet the reality. The US never really claims it failed, but that some unforeseen force changed the dynamics. But it you were to set the metric for the performance of the overall strategy and plan that we set in the beginning, then you are able to judge how close today's reality is with the vision originally set.

Washington, DC, September 1, 2006 - The National Security Archive is today posting State Department documents from 2002 tracing the inception of the "Future of Iraq Project," alongside the final, mammoth 13-volume study, previously obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. "The Future of Iraq Project" was one of the most comprehensive U.S. government planning efforts for raising that country out of the ashes of combat and establishing a functioning democracy. The new materials complement previous postings on the Archive's site relating to the United States' complex relationship with Iraq during the years leading up to the 2003 invasion.

Source: New State Department Releases on the "Future of Iraq" Project

It is my view that the US, despite its best efforts, did not have the genius that was necessary to make the vision come true. As a nation, the US no longer has the necessary knowledge, skills and abilities to meet challenges like this; then, now or in the immediate future. Anyone that look at the planning documents can tell that today's Iraq is nothing like the vision our government had in 2002/2003. All good intentions aside, what we may had done is set the time table back to the point when Saddam forced President Bakr to step down under threat of being removed by force, and immediately had several top members of the Ba'ath party arrested and later executed under claim of espionage. In this case - the variant is, al-Maliki has top GOI members arrested on charges of terrorism. We don't know for sure, but it is NOT looking so good so far.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Someone has GOT to be spamming the Yes choice.
When this thread was about seven pages old I checked the poll results, and it was 4 worth it and 22 not worth it.

Then I posted this: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/114920-war-iraq-worth-8.html#post1060035789.

The next day I checked the poll again .. and it was about 64 worth it and 36 not worth it.

I wonder what happened?

Now I don't for a moment think my post had any effect on subsequent votes .. really ...

Still, I've yet to vote .. and I'm kinda leanin' to "worth it", as sad as I am to say.
 
Those who do the training, those who crreated the training, say clearly and have said so in testimney, that what you received is not the same thing. It was to prepare you for TORTURE. They did not do what would happen to you if you were facing the real thing.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. It was to prepare us for interrogation. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

As for you not getting facts, again, tell yourself what you have to. But that doesn't change the facts, or make what you say true.

Again...what facts? Have you shown any motion presented by any UN member? Have you shown any substantial proof that our reputation is in tatters? No, you have presented talking points, rumors, and conjecture.
 
Last edited:
In truth, we are not leaving Iraq. Thousands of civilian contractors are in place, possibly permanently. We have never left anyplace on this blue green planet...that I know of..
Call it "imperial", if you wish, I call it human nature.
And our military is simply moving to Kuwait and/or other next door nations.....

If that were true....why did we invade the same place twice??
 
Those 75 who state that the Iraq War was "worth it" do not place much value on human life, do they???

Appeal to emotion...gibberish. Ending a brutal dictatorship is humane even at the cost of human life.
 
Ontology, et al,

Maybe! It will be a while before we can tell.

Still, I've yet to vote .. and I'm kinda leanin' to "worth it", as sad as I am to say.
(COMMENT)

Certainly you are not alone.

Pew Research Survey October 5 said:
As the United States marks the 10th anniversary of the longest period of sustained warfare in its history, the overwhelming majority of veterans of the post-9/11 era (96%) are proud of their military service. At the same time, more than four-in-ten (44%) report that they have had difficulties readjusting to civilian life, and 37% say that - whether or not they have been formally diagnosed - they have suffered from post-traumatic stress. While post-9/11 veterans are more supportive than the general public, just one-third (34%) say that, given the costs and benefits to the U.S., the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have both been worth fighting.

Source: War and Sacrifice in the Post-9/11 Era - Pew Research Center

That means you're with the majority.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Back
Top Bottom