View Poll Results: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

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  • Yes

    109 52.66%
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Thread: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

  1. #541
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Allow me to add this:

    On the other hand, members of the Security Council have not acquiesced in using force in connection with Iraqi weapons inspections. The ceasefire resolution declares that sanctions will remain on Iraq until inspectors certify it is free of weapons of mass destruction. The debate since 1991 has been about lifting or leaving the sanctions, not whether states should be able to use military force to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destruction and the means to produce them[4]. No acquiescence has occurred to allow force for enforcing weapons inspections, and certainly none has developed to authorize ousting Saddam Hussein.

    This conclusion was underscored when President Bush acknowledged as much in his speech to the UN on September 12[5]. He said the US would pursue the necessary resolutions in the Security Council, meaning that new resolutions, authorizing force, would be necessary before the US or any other country could carry out lawful enforcement action in respect to any Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

    Resolution 1441 provides no new authorization for using force. It states in paragraph 12 that a meeting of the Security Council will be the first step upon a report by inspectors that Iraq has obstructed their activities. Consequences will follow a meeting. Syria has confirmed that it received a letter from US Secretary of State Colin Powell "in which he stressed that there is nothing in the resolution to allow it to be used as a pretext to launch a war on Iraq."[6] Thus, if and when a meeting is called, Security Council members will have an opportunity to state their assessment of whether serious consequences are called for or not.

    (snip)

    In conclusion, Resolution 1441 is designed to ensure that Saddam Hussein does not have weapons of mass destruction nor the capability to produce them. If applied reasonably by the Security Council, consistently with principles of international law, it is possible for Saddam to comply. To that extent, the resolution is not a cynical exercise to provide legal cover for a US invasion. Indeed, it requires restraint on the part of the US, too. The resolution weakens US arguments of authority to use force under prior resolutions, in the face of material breach or to pre-empt threats. However, Resolution 1441 does open the door for Security Council authorized action, including force, should Saddam fail to comply in good faith.



    JURIST - O'Connell: UN Resolution 1441 - Compelling Saddam, Restraining Bush

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #542
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The US and UK governments, stated that the invasion was entirely legal because it was already authorized by existing United Nations Security Council resolutions and a resumption of previously temporarily suspended hostilities, and were acting as agents for the defense of Kuwait in response to Iraq's 1990 invasion. The War was ok because we were protecting Kuwait from an invasion 14 years prior?
    Actually the application of that reasoning was Saddam's positioning of troops near the Kuwaiti border in 2001-2002, not an invasion 14 years prior.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  3. #543
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I clearly and succinctly said it authorized military force. At least pay attention.
    Not sure why you think that matters? But OK.


    You want to live in your own reality - that's cool. But there are multiple resolutions that identify exactly was was voted on at the UN, and who authorized it (Security Council). I'm not going to argue settled and agreed upon history because you don't want to accept it as reality... it's there for all to read.
    Not honest ones. And while you may want to push buttons, and more power to you, the debate is about whether the invasion was authorized by UN resolution 1441. Such cannot b argued reasonably.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #544
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they cannot. Not remotely. You do have to suspend disbleif to believe that they do. I again point to the fact that the definition of the coalition of the willing itself means outside the UN. You cannot argue, honestly, that the invasion was authorized by the UN.
    And you have to stick your fingers in your ears and sing the National Anthem to ignore that they can be interpreted to do just that. I'm not saying it's a correct interpretation, I'm saying it's an interpretation. This dissonance is why courts exist.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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  5. #545
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    Not honest ones. And while you may want to push buttons, and more power to you, the debate is about whether the invasion was authorized by UN resolution 1441. Such cannot b argued reasonably.
    It's only unreasonable to you in your reality. To the rest of us, it's not only reasonable but historical fact - settled history. Sure it went around the Constitution... but that doesn't make the authorization of force any less real.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #546
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    And you have to stick your fingers in your ears and sing the National Anthem to ignore that they can be interpreted to do just that. I'm not saying it's a correct interpretation, I'm saying it's an interpretation. This dissonance is why courts exist.
    No. I provide evidence. We can make things up I suppose, say any while thing, and then say charge me. I suppose that works to some extent. But agian, Bush moved outside the UN. A coalition of the willing is by definition outside the UN. So, no, there is no disagreement of the type you suggest. If the US was within the UN, there would have been no coalition.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #547
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It's only unreasonable to you in your reality. To the rest of us, it's not only reasonable but historical fact - settled history. Sure it went around the Constitution... but that doesn't make the authorization of force any less real.
    Different subject. Which is usually what happens on your side here. You can't show UN authorization, knowing it really didn't exist, so you swing around. I have seen it before. But the argument here is that it was authorized by the UN. We can deal with that other question later.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #548
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. I provide evidence. We can make things up I suppose, say any while thing, and then say charge me. I suppose that works to some extent. But agian, Bush moved outside the UN. A coalition of the willing is by definition outside the UN. So, no, there is no disagreement of the type you suggest. If the US was within the UN, there would have been no coalition.
    Oh say can you seeeeee........
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  9. #549
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Oh say can you seeeeee........
    I guess that's the best you can do. Much easier than addressing the link or the point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #550
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I guess that's the best you can do. Much easier than addressing the link or the point.
    I've been addressing the point, and you've been ignoring it. The point is, you can call it illegal all you want, but you can't prove it.
    Last edited by mac; 12-30-11 at 10:42 PM.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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