View Poll Results: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

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  • Yes

    109 52.66%
  • No

    98 47.34%
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Thread: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

  1. #91
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Of course it was. Iraq's government progessed 100 years in 10. Anyone with any 'progressive' in them must admit that. It went from a genocidal dictatorship to some semblence of democracy. Women's rights have progressed drastically, FGM and Honor Killings are no longer State sanctioned (legal). Censorship has been lessened from unimaginable degrees, it is now ok to criticize the government. The country is no longer in violation of 17 Chapter 7 UNSCRs, and is instead working with the international community towards the development of useful infrastructure. The Kurds and Marsh Arabs are no longer suffering genocide.

    I mean, really... how could removing a backward genocidal dictatorship and replacing it with the beginnings of democracy not be worth it? Just ask the Kurds or Marsh Arabs if it was worth it.

    Iraq is now poised to develop like an Asian Tiger, instead of becoming another North Korea. We shined a light into the heart of darkness.
    Deeply impacted, no doubt. Women's rights disappear under Sharia law. We taught them how to torture. Abu Ghraib, anyone. That was where the Commander in Chief allowed his underlings to take the blame for standard policy. He didn't have the courage to admit that the toture was his policy. Over 100,000 dead Iraquis. We killed those, not Saddam. The OIL is in the pipeline now and not being sold in Euros, which destabilized the dollar, and the profits flow to Exxon/Mobil, BP, Total, Haliburton, KBR, Bechtel, Z, and all the good ol' boys who were and are the "Contractors." War for OIL and Profit. Ain't it the American Way or is the same thing in Libya as different as day from day. The managers of "perception" reside deeply in you cerebellum and you should get that fixed, now that you might be aware it is broken.

  2. #92
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Invited? The South was our puppet. Like I said... the slave or puppet doesn't "invite" the Master of Puppets anywhere. Que Lars and Metallica! DUN DUN DUN!
    You're opening a far bigger discussion about the worldwide struggle against communism and the associated paranoia. Regardless of the relationship with South Korea/Vietnam...they were our allies and they requested assistance.

    And we are getting off the point here. I don't care about it being an invasion. That is not the point. Don't let him fool you. My point was that would another nation be justified in attacking us and kicking us out of any country that we were in with our military? Would Russia or China be justified as we think that we were in going to Iraq and attacking us in order to kick us out as we did to Iraq when they were in Kuwait. THAT is the point and not this apstd filled semantical tangent where he just won't answer the ****ing question.
    The answer is yes. If they felt we were conducting an unjustified act, they surely had the right. The reality is that not to many people were Saddam's fans regardless of the few that benefited from his empowerment. Even they knew he was a scourge. An even greater truth is that there are not too many countries willing to risk open engagement with the US over any issue, no matter how "right" they think it is.

    Besides, America's government's first responsibility is to protect America's interests. No matter how unsavory the idea of "fighting for oil" is...oil is a fundamental resource in the American economy, and loosing it would could grievous harm to the country. Sure, our dependance on it is mostly our own fault, but it doesn't change the fact that we are dependent on it. Beyond this, America is moving towards supporting the spread of Democracy, and that's not a bad thing. History shows that Democratic governments rarely engage each other in warfare. Promoting the spread of Democracy is necessary in the spread of world peace.


    To me, the biggest disappointment is that we have not established a permanent presence in Iraq and the middle east as a result of this war, like we did in Europe and Asia following WWII. A dominant US presence has allready shown to be a stabilizing force in both Europe and Asia, and would have been the same in the Middle east.
    Last edited by mac; 12-17-11 at 10:45 AM.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  3. #93
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Does anyone know if Iran has sent us a thank you card for taking out their enemy? Now their more extremist version of Islam gets to flourish in the region thanks to us. I'm sure that makes us safer. And the goal was to make the world safer for Americans. I'm sure glad it's "mission accomplished."

  4. #94
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Worth what?

    What did WE get out of the deal?

    Let me know and then I will vote in your poll.
    Cost a few thousands lives, helped increase the debt, helped al Qaeda recruit, took attention away from Afghanistan, helped to enbolden Iranian radicals, and took at least 100,000 Iraqi lives. Seems like a win to me.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #95
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Do you believe that America should always stay on the sidelines of a genocide?
    No. But the Iraq War wasn't about halting geocide now in and of itself now, was it? However, if it had been such and there was a global effort from around the world to stop Saddam from committing genocide, ala, Adolff Hitler killing the Jews, I would have been all for it! But it wasn't.

    The primary reason GWB went into Iraq wasn't to stop genocide; it was to stop Saddam from partnering with potential terrorist who likely would use weapons of mass destruction against America. Halting genocide was a "sweetner"...a reason to convince people here and abroad that his cause for invading Iraq was just. It wasn't.

  6. #96
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Should we have worried about what Hitler did to his own people?
    Let's get this straight before the "genocide excuse" goes viral.

    Stopping Hitler from killing the Jews was a global initiative, but it didn't start out as such. We "stumbled" upon learning that the killings were true. Sure, there were lots of Jews who escaped the iron fist of Hilter's rein by migrating to America who informed our government of what was happening, but the world didn't know the truth about the slaughter until well into WWII. And even then it wasn't just an American effort to halt it. It was a multi-national effort. That's the different as I see the comparion between stopping Hitler and stopping Saddam from committing genocide against his people.

    Since the days of WWII, the U.N. has acted as the global venue for nations to speak out again those isolationist nations who are believed to be committing genocide. America may have spoke before the U.N. against what Saddam was doing, but garnering multi-national support against it was hardly their primary justification for invading Iraq.

  7. #97
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Do you believe that America should always stay on the sidelines of a genocide?
    What inn the hell are you talking about? We did stay on the sideline during the genocide. Stood perfectly still and watched it. Waited until it long ended, after the country had suffered through all the worse, and then, and only then, brough war to add injury to injury. That is why human rights grouops, groups who begged us to interfer when the genocide was happening, opposed us when we went in in 2003. We just made sure even more people were killed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #98
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Saddam taking control of 20% of the worlds oil reserves would have been a crippling blow to America's economy, and would have crippled America's ability to defend itself. Saddam invaded Kuwait because they refused to slow oil production and drive the price of oil up. Saddam needed high oil prices to pay of it's war debt. (Iran-Iraq war). Whether or not you know any Kuwaitis has nothing to do with the very real impact to your life that Saddam's successful acquisition of Kuwait would have caused. Never mind the idea that unprovoked aggression against another sovereign nation is generally considered taboo in the civilized world.
    But pushing Saddam's army out of Kuwait isn't at question here. The Kuwaiti government asked for our help - specially, their King asked for President Bush's help directly. So, comparing the liberation of Kuwait to the Iraqi invasion by "W" are two completely different things.

  9. #99
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Only if we were unwilling to adapt. We have HUGE oil reserves. Canada has HUGE oil reserves. We have the biggest natural gas reserves in the world and could easily adapt and leave the whole M.E. to the barbaric 7th century ways... laughing all the way as they fell back into the dark ages. But nope, we made things far far worse by invading. I guess time will tell. In 25 years I might recant here at this very site... I bet you are anxious to wait and see, eh?
    It's not as easy as that. The U.S. dollar is the world's reserve currency. It's value was being manipulated by OPEC nations who own their nation's oil fields. As such, they began to use their own currency to sell oil (taking the lead from Iran). This was having an impact on both oil prices and the U.S. dollar. So, even if we had made a major shift from importing OPEC oil to importing Canadian oil or oil from other friendly nations, it still wouldn't have had a significant global shift in the value of our currency overnight. We would need a "bridge" - something to fill the economic void, so to speak - between the wealth earned from foreigners purchasing oil using the U.S. dollar and domestic oil production/oil imports from friendly nations. Mind you, things probably wouldn't have seemed so urgent had our economy not tanked. (You can only "create" so much wealth using financial services as the lynch-pin of your nation's economic policy before the bottom starts to fall out.) But economic policy under GWB didn't change fast enough. So, what is that "bridge" you may ask? I'll give you a 3-word clue: "Made in America".

  10. #100
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    Re: Was the War in Iraq worth it?

    My perspective is, if you're going to fight a dumb war, at least plan for it carefully. Rumsfeld and his boys couldn't do even that. Shinseki says "On the order of hundreds of thousands of troops" and gets politically castrated criticized as being a Clinton general because he doesn't get on the "maneuver warfare, only need four or five divisions, I'ma just salute smartly and about-face and not question your dumb plan" bandwagon.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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