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Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

  • Yes, it protects her from bearing the rapist's child

    Votes: 82 92.1%

  • No, that pill is unethical

    Votes: 7 7.9%
  • Total voters
    89
mpg said:
How do you propose defining it? If you do it scientifically, a zygote is an organism.
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I'm not actually making one proposal. I'm pointing out one of many 'defensible' positions. For instance in the case I made the possibility of a human life is all that is necessary. It's interesting that you are using a scientific definition. Science is neither the point nor the reference that is being used much in this discussion of the morning after pill. Note that a fertile seed is not a plant. Do you need more?
 
rosie1 said:
For those who oppose the plan B pill, what if the rape victim is an 11 year old girl, perhaps a girl so small that pregnancy would be dangerous to her?

No-one should have the legal right to tell a woman what she can do with her own body, as it is not their body to decide.
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This.

There was actually a case just like this in El Salvador years ago, where all abortions are illegal, even those needed to save the life of the mother.

A nine-year-old was raped and became pregnant. Yes, you read that right. She was advised to have an abortion because of the sheer danger of a body that small carrying a fetus inside her. What happened to the doctor that made this recommendation? He was excommunicated, BUT NOT THE MAN WHO RAPED HER. The abortion was not allowed to take place, so she was forced to deliver by C-section. Think about that. An underage girl was forced against her will three times. She was forced to have sex, she was forced not to abort, and therefore she was forced to have a C-section.

What the antiabortionists choose not to understand is that when women of any age lose the right to protect and govern their bodies, **** like this will happen. It is inevitable. There are some sick, twisted people out there that have zero respect for women. And dare I say that a man's level of respect who believes all this is okay (because it's a lot rarer that women do) is not much higher.
 
MarineTpartier said:
OH MY GOSH!!! Do you read? I said, I do not want Federal funds paying FOR ANY ABORTION, NO MATTER THE CAUSE!!!! . The current version of the Hyde Amendment allows abortion for rape, incest, or health of the mother. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?
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Ok I could see you heartlessly and selfishly denying rape and incest victims abortion to meet your personal belief system, but the health of the mother too? You do realize that women are humans right?
 
OhIsee.Then said:
If a woman has an egg available and she doesn’t get a sperm for it she has killed her baby, his too. It is not hard to understand this. You are making a mistake when you arbitrarily define when a baby is created. Where do those like you get that so obviously incorrect perception? Note that even some religions have decided this since coupling with birth control is forbidden.
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No one argues that an egg alone is a baby. There's a huge difference between a haploid cell and diploid. Eggs are haploid, zygotes are diploid.

There is no non-arbitrary point along development where we can see that human dignity is gained. Therefore, we must default to conception, which is where the first diploid cell is made.
 
Phys251 said:
This.

There was actually a case just like this in El Salvador years ago, where all abortions are illegal, even those needed to save the life of the mother.

A nine-year-old was raped and became pregnant. Yes, you read that right. She was advised to have an abortion because of the sheer danger of a body that small carrying a fetus inside her. What happened to the doctor that made this recommendation? He was excommunicated, BUT NOT THE MAN WHO RAPED HER. The abortion was not allowed to take place, so she was forced to deliver by C-section. Think about that. An underage girl was forced against her will three times. She was forced to have sex, she was forced not to abort, and therefore she was forced to have a C-section.

What the antiabortionists choose not to understand is that when women of any age lose the right to protect and govern their bodies, **** like this will happen. It is inevitable. There are some sick, twisted people out there that have zero respect for women. And dare I say that a man's level of respect who believes all this is okay (because it's a lot rarer that women do) is not much higher.
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The problem with issues like this is the judgment. Are we going to say that the life of the 9 year old is more valuable than the life of the baby? None of us can make that call.
 
OhIsee.Then said:
You are making a mistake when you arbitrarily define when a baby is created.
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Aside from defining it scientifically or arbitrarily, what other alternatives are there?
 
phattonez said:
The problem with issues like this is the judgment. Are we going to say that the life of the 9 year old is more valuable than the life of the baby? None of us can make that call.
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I hope that, before you stop and respond to this, that you can realize what an incredibly insensitive comment you just made. That was the first thing you singled out, and not that a doctor was excommunicated for potentially saving this underage rape victim's life (or at least health), and the pedophile wasn't? You give us strong reason to question your motives, phattonez, and I hope you can stop and think about why.

Furthermore, right after accusing me of making a judgment, you made one yourself. Can we please dispense with the double standards?
 
Phys251 said:
I hope that, before you stop and respond to this, that you can realize what an incredibly insensitive comment you just made. That was the first thing you singled out, and not that a doctor was excommunicated for potentially saving this underage rape victim's life (or at least health), and the pedophile wasn't? You give us strong reason to question your motives, phattonez, and I hope you can stop and think about why.
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I didn't make a comment about the excommunication because I really don't know enough about the situation. I was merely trying to point out that making the choice between the baby and the mother is not an easy one, as you seemed to imply.
 
phattonez said:
The problem with issues like this is the judgment. Are we going to say that the life of the 9 year old is more valuable than the life of the baby? None of us can make that call.
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Well I can certainly make that call. Yes, the life of an abused 9 year old is more important than the embryo that will destroy her insides for life and possibly kill her. Little girls... and even *gasp!* women... are actual living, breathing people, not perhaps-someday people. And most importantly, they are not chattel, they are not property, and they have the same right to control what happens to their own bodies as men do. A stunning revelation to some, I know. Deal with it.
 
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DiAnna said:
Well I can certainly make that call. Yes, the life of an abused 9 year old is more important than the embryo that will destroy her insides for life and possibly kill her. Little girls... and even *gasp!* women... are actual living, breathing people, not perhaps-someday people. And most importantly, they are not chattel, they are not property, and they have the same right to control what happens to their own bodies as men do. A stunning revelation to some, I know. Deal with it.
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What revelation? That you conveniently choose to ignore the life of an unborn child? Tell me then what non-arbitrary event you use to define when human dignity is acquired.
 
DiAnna said:
Well I can certainly make that call. Yes, the life of an abused 9 year old is more important than the embryo that will destroy her insides for life and possibly kill her. Little girls... and even *gasp!* women... are actual living, breathing people, not perhaps-someday people. And most importantly, they are not chattel, they are not property, and they have the same right to control what happens to their own bodies as men do. A stunning revelation to some, I know. Deal with it.
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Woot! You tell it! What she said!
 
phattonez said:
I didn't make a comment about the excommunication because I really don't know enough about the situation. I was merely trying to point out that making the choice between the baby and the mother is not an easy one, as you seemed to imply.
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Dude.

This one is a slam-dunk.

A NINE-YEAR-OLD GIRL WAS RAPED, for God's sake.

Never mind the fact that this girl will be scarred for life from her rape (you are opposed to that, right?). You know how dangerous it is for a girl that young to be carrying a fetuses? Fetuses don't try to come out smaller simply because their mother is smaller.

You're seriously trying to convince us that the abortion might have been as morally bad as the rape? Good god...

DiAnna said:
Well I can certainly make that call. Yes, the life of an abused 9 year old is more important than the embryo that will destroy her insides for life and possibly kill her. Little girls... and even *gasp!* women... are actual living, breathing people, not perhaps-someday people. And most importantly, they are not chattel, they are not property, and they have the same right to control what happens to their own bodies as men do. A stunning revelation to some, I know. Deal with it.
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Oh man. He might understand this someday if he, too, had ovaries!
 
Phys251 said:
Dude.

This one is a slam-dunk.

A NINE-YEAR-OLD GIRL WAS RAPED, for God's sake.

Never mind the fact that this girl will be scarred for life from her rape (you are opposed to that, right?). You know how dangerous it is for a girl that young to be carrying a fetuses? Fetuses don't try to come out smaller simply because their mother is smaller.

You're seriously trying to convince us that the abortion might have been as morally bad as the rape? Good god...
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If someone asked you if murder or rape was worse, how would you respond?

Oh man. He might understand this someday if he, too, had ovaries!
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Now how about a real argument?
 
omg. Backing slowly out. This thread could be a potential infraction for me so instead of sitting on my hands, I'll just wander off.
 
Higgins86 said:
It should be available for eveyone, just take a walk around your local walmart on a saturday and I think you will agree that chantel aged 22 doesn't need to have a 5th kid...
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I knew a 19 year old with 5 kids, and she was on welfare... and welfare wouldn't pay for her to get her tubes tied despite wanting them tied. That's ****ed up. Also, the last two were twins. I wouldn't be surprised if she has more kids now, and I also heard she lost custody of her kids at least once. In short, I agree with you. Some people don't need more kids.
 
Blackstone said:
This is patently absurd. If it was not an abortion pill, Obama would have absolutely no interest in Plan B, nor in its accessibility to women.
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This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.
This is patently absurd.

Irony.jpg
 
Cephus said:
The morning after pill should be available to any woman of legal age for any reason whatsoever.
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I agree. Plan B is an amazing invention. It's very empowering for a female to take it as opposed to worry for weeks, feeling powerless and scared. A rape victim shouldn't have to go through more, and Plan B prevents more abortion. No woman wants to experience abortion. Plan B is very very valuable.
 
DiAnna said:
Well I can certainly make that call. Yes, the life of an abused 9 year old is more important than the embryo that will destroy her insides for life and possibly kill her. Little girls... and even *gasp!* women... are actual living, breathing people, not perhaps-someday people. And most importantly, they are not chattel, they are not property, and they have the same right to control what happens to their own bodies as men do. A stunning revelation to some, I know. Deal with it.
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Your comments are highly ironic, seeing as the embryo is there in our world and even according to you is a 'perhaps-someday person'. It is extremely hard, if you are rational, to see in what sense you can make the difference between formal human being in the womb, which it is according to your own words, with all the nature of a human being, at least potentially if not all actually, and the 9 old girl( and I noticed you have chosen the most extreme example you can think of) whose nature is no more, by the reason of your own words, human, but simply more is actual in our universe and less is potential. If we followed your reasoning we'd see it was arbitrary, as phattonez suggests, and leads to all sorts of awkward judgments about what is the right development of your individual, personal, formal human nature to not be considered expendable.

Now I honestly do not know what to do in cases where it would be very dangerous for the mother to carry the fetus to term. But the question of rape and incest is different and it makes no sense for a pro-life person to wish to allow them to be aborted. I know there is a strange view that such people who are against abortion even in these cases are extremists. But this is nonsense, it is in the very logic of the thing to for them to be opposed to them. It is just playing into the 'pro-choice' sides hands to accept such nonsense.
 
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SheWolf said:
I agree. Plan B is an amazing invention. It's very empowering for a female to take it as opposed to worry for weeks, feeling powerless and scared. A rape victim shouldn't have to go through more, and Plan B prevents more abortion. No woman wants to experience abortion. Plan B is very very valuable.
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Plan B does not prevent more abortion as it IS abortion.
 
phattonez said:
If someone asked you if murder or rape was worse, how would you respond?
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Way to completely dodge my point. Answer it first if you want me to even consider answering yours.

Now how about a real argument?
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I gave you one and you didn't like it. The goal of antiabortionists is to take control over women's reproductive freedom, period. It's so funny that the same side of the aisle that claims to be for liberty and freedom is all in favor of its destruction on this issue.

SheWolf said:
I agree. Plan B is an amazing invention. It's very empowering for a female to take it as opposed to worry for weeks, feeling powerless and scared. A rape victim shouldn't have to go through more, and Plan B prevents more abortion. No woman wants to experience abortion. Plan B is very very valuable.
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This. Rape is all about taking control from the victim over herself. Plan B, while it certainly doesn't reverse that, gives the woman a little of that control back.
 
phattonez said:
What revelation? That you conveniently choose to ignore the life of an unborn child? Tell me then what non-arbitrary event you use to define when human dignity is acquired.
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Viability.
 
Wessexman said:
Your comments are...
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...not directed to you or your post(s). There's a reason for that. You speak much and say nothing. Nothing actually said, nothing to actually respond to. Bye now.
 
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