View Poll Results: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

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  • Yes, it protects her from bearing the rapist's child

    106 92.98%
  • No, that pill is unethical

    8 7.02%
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Thread: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

  1. #541
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And yet the Catholic church will not kick anyone out unless it can be proven that the person had an abortion. They have said so. Since it is impossible to prove that Plan B was even necessary, let alone that it prevented a fertilized egg from implanting (which isn't even technically an abortion, only against the Catholic mainstream), then there is no way that the church could without a doubt prove that an abortion (even their version of one) ever took place.
    Well that isn't the only thing we are discussing. But I quoted a recent document from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It was certainly disapproving of any use of these pills, indeed it is a sin in Catholic teaching to use contraceptives in general, and states 'Therefore, the use of means of interception and contragestation fall within the sin of abortion and are gravely immoral.'. But the main point is about what pro-lifers should think about the morning after pill. The chance, based on the academic evidence, of it causing abortion seems to rule it out to those pro-lifers not opposed to all contraceptives anyway.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-06-12 at 03:14 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?
    Yes, as well as preventative treatment for any number of STDs and HIV.

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Well that isn't the only thing we are discussing. But I quoted a recent document from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It was certainly disapproving of any use of these pills, indeed it is a sin in Catholic teaching to use contraceptives in general, and states 'Therefore, the use of means of interception and contragestation fall within the sin of abortion and are gravely immoral.'. But the main point is about what pro-lifers should think about the morning after pill. The chance, based on the academic evidence, of it causing abortion seems to rule it out to those pro-lifers not opposed to all contraceptives anyway.
    That same Doctrine says that action would be taken only if an abortion could be proven. As I've repeatedly said, it cannot be proven with just the use of Plan B, so the entire thing is really just empty rhetoric.

    I have at least one aunt who believes that any sex that isn't for the sole purpose of trying to conceive, is sinful. This isn't a view too far out from what has been a main belief of many Catholics not so long ago. We still have plenty of Catholics who believe birth control at all is a grave sin.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That same Doctrine says that action would be taken only if an abortion could be proven. As I've repeatedly said, it cannot be proven with just the use of Plan B, so the entire thing is really just empty rhetoric.
    Actually it doesn't say that. It says if it is proven that abortion was intended then even more grave penalties ensure, I believe. It certainly suggests that using these pills is sinful in itself, indeed besides the fact that contraceptives are against canon law and considered a sin anyway.

    I have at least one aunt who believes that any sex that isn't for the sole purpose of trying to conceive, is sinful. This isn't a view too far out from what has been a main belief of many Catholics not so long ago. We still have plenty of Catholics who believe birth control at all is a grave sin.
    As a Catholic you do not get to disagree with doctrine on issues like this. The Church says birth control is a grave sin. If you simply disagree with this, and ignore it, then you are having trouble understanding what it is to be a Catholic.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-06-12 at 08:32 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Actually it doesn't say that. It says if it is proven that abortion was intended then even more grave penalties ensure, I believe. It certainly suggests that using these pills is sinful in itself, indeed besides the fact that contraceptives are against canon law and considered a sin anyway.

    As a Catholic you do not get to disagree with doctrine on issues like this. The Church says birth control is a grave sin. If you simply disagree with this, and ignore it, then you are having trouble understanding what it is to be a Catholic.
    ^That is false.

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Even the Iowa Caucus Republicans, over 50% hardcore pro-life evangelicals, put the two active candidates that declared they opposed abortion in the case of rape as the bottom two most rejected - Perry and Bachmann. To no surprise, normal Christians especially don't like rapists nor see them as rightly having ANY power over ANYONE or ANY rights whatsoever. Top of the list is they do not have procreation rights via rape.

    Declaring a woman must have a rapist's baby is in fact the most extreme "pro-rapists rights" advocacy. Nearly all people disagree and believe rapists have NO rights and certainty not government protected procreation rights - which of course includes not only the right to pick mothers at their unilateral decision for conception of their children by rape, but then to also have no legal duties or obligations whatsoever to their children as people in prison don't pay child support or provide any other support of their children.

    Those claiming men have a government-protected right to force women to have their children and with no obligations towards their children are absolutely taking a Pro-Rapists position.
    Last edited by joko104; 01-06-12 at 01:11 PM.

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Even the Iowa Caucus Republicans, over 50% hardcore pro-life evangelicals, put the two active candidates that declared they opposed abortion in the case of rape as the bottom two most rejected - Perry and Bachmann. To no surprise, normal Christians especially don't like rapists nor see them as rightly having ANY power over ANYONE or ANY rights whatsoever. Top of the list is they do not have procreation rights via rape.

    Declaring a woman must have a rapist's baby is in fact the most extreme "pro-rapists rights" advocacy. Nearly all people disagree and believe rapists have NO rights and certainty not government protected procreation rights - which of course includes not only the right to pick mothers at their unilateral decision for conception of their children by rape, but then to also have no legal duties or obligations whatsoever to their children as people in prison don't pay child support or provide any other support of their children.

    Those claiming men have a government-protected right to force women to have their children and with no obligations towards their children are absolutely taking a Pro-Rapists position.
    Give it up already.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Actually it doesn't say that. It says if it is proven that abortion was intended then even more grave penalties ensure, I believe. It certainly suggests that using these pills is sinful in itself, indeed besides the fact that contraceptives are against canon law and considered a sin anyway.

    As a Catholic you do not get to disagree with doctrine on issues like this. The Church says birth control is a grave sin. If you simply disagree with this, and ignore it, then you are having trouble understanding what it is to be a Catholic.
    I'd say not all Catholics believe that Plan B causes abortions.

    Catholic journal says Plan B does not cause abortions | National Catholic Reporter

    And, as I said, although taking Plan B may be considered a sin, punishment under canon law only comes when it can be proven that an abortion took place.

    "Furthermore, when there is certainty that an abortion has resulted, there are serious penalties in canon law."

    Instruction Dignitas Personae on Certain Bioethical Questions, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

    I'm not Catholic, my family is.

    And I'm pretty sure that I've already told you this. You do not get to decide what people decide their religion is. If you look at a person's beliefs and they most closely match with Catholicism, but they have a few issues where they disagree, then why would they not be Catholic? Catholic beliefs, for the most part, especially about heaven, saints, purgatory, angels, and hell, are pretty different from Protestant beliefs. Those are the main parts of the Catholic religion. Everything else is just extra.

    How many Catholics want female priests? How many Catholics believe in evolution? How many Catholics use birth control? I'm willing to bet a large percentage of them, especially here in the US.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Yes, a rape victim should have the option to take the pill.
    My family is more important than my party.
    -Zell Miller

  10. #550
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I'd say not all Catholics believe that Plan B causes abortions.

    Catholic journal says Plan B does not cause abortions | National Catholic Reporter

    And, as I said, although taking Plan B may be considered a sin, punishment under canon law only comes when it can be proven that an abortion took place.
    Sin must be absolved, one way or another.

    That article simply shows what is being said, the evidence is split. If it could be proved it cannot cause abortion, as defined as killing any zygote after conception, then I'd except its use in these circumstances. But the academic evidence is split right now.

    Instruction Dignitas Personae on Certain Bioethical Questions, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

    I'm not Catholic, my family is.

    And I'm pretty sure that I've already told you this. You do not get to decide what people decide their religion is. If you look at a person's beliefs and they most closely match with Catholicism, but they have a few issues where they disagree, then why would they not be Catholic? Catholic beliefs, for the most part, especially about heaven, saints, purgatory, angels, and hell, are pretty different from Protestant beliefs. Those are the main parts of the Catholic religion. Everything else is just extra.

    How many Catholics want female priests? How many Catholics believe in evolution? How many Catholics use birth control? I'm willing to bet a large percentage of them, especially here in the US.
    I get to point out obvious aspects of the religion. If a Methodist says he prays to Mecca then I can point out he is confused somewhat about the basis of the Methodist branch of the Christian faith.

    At the heart of Catholic belief is also Papal Supremacy, the importance of the Magisterium of the Church and the Sacred Tradition. You do not get to dissent from doctrines like these.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-06-12 at 06:45 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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