View Poll Results: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

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  • Yes, it protects her from bearing the rapist's child

    106 92.98%
  • No, that pill is unethical

    8 7.02%
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Thread: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

  1. #501
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    No offense Bodhi but you are trying to critique the position itself, which is different from whether it should imply all abortion is murder, logically. One reason they'd take such a stance is that the fetus is a new human being, this is the time when a new being is formed, no other time between conception and death is when a new being, as opposed to new trait like consciousness, can be seen to be formed. Now from the pro-life perspective consciousness is just that a trait, but the being is one united individual human nature and person of which consciousness is just a property that develops, albeit an important one. Therefore it makes perfect sense to consider full humanity to begin at conception. Otherwise you end up with dualistic understandings where the body and soul or consciousness are less one being in our corporeal level of existence, than the body a place which the soul enters as an after thought.
    As I was writing it I was realizing that I was sprinkling personal opinion on a tad heavy but I felt it was a good time since I want to end this part of the debate with respect for everybody's views while at the same time leaving with those few questions for people to think about... if they do at all. All good.
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  2. #502
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Yes, but that is because your family is misunderstanding them. Do they no there is at least equal academic opinion and evidence they can cause abortion?
    My mother is a nurse. I'm pretty sure she knows what the morning after pill is. My family is very much for birth control, despite a heavy Catholic background. And they are all smart enough to realize that a person normally doesn't get pregnant until at least a day, if not two or three, after having sex. And they consider life beginning at implantation, not conception.

    If life begins at conception, what about those eggs that get fertilized for invitro and stored? Many of them just go bad. Yet, very few are crying about those "dead babies".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #503
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If life begins at conception, what about those eggs that get fertilized for invitro and stored? Many of them just go bad. Yet, very few are crying about those "dead babies".
    Some do. There are people who "adopt" them even. Google "embryo adoption" and see.

    So far, no bombs or protests at fertility clinics though. I keep asking pro-lifers why they don't blockade women going in to fertility clinics, but I get no answer.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  4. #504
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Some do. There are people who "adopt" them even. Google "embryo adoption" and see.

    So far, no bombs or protests at fertility clinics though. I keep asking pro-lifers why they don't blockade women going in to fertility clinics, but I get no answer.
    Not nearly the number who are pro-life though. I'm pro-life, but I consider myself a practical pro-lifer. I would much rather have women taking morning after pills (although taking precautions before sex is much more preferred) than her having to wait to find out she is pregnant and getting an abortion. The morning after pills just eliminates a bunch of cells that are developing into more (even if it is acting as an abortion pill), while full out abortion is likely stopping a heartbeat and possibly even happening when a child could feel the pain (I am completely against partial birth abortions unless it was absolutely the last thing available to save a woman's life).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not nearly the number who are pro-life though. I'm pro-life, but I consider myself a practical pro-lifer. I would much rather have women taking morning after pills (although taking precautions before sex is much more preferred) than her having to wait to find out she is pregnant and getting an abortion. The morning after pills just eliminates a bunch of cells that are developing into more (even if it is acting as an abortion pill), while full out abortion is likely stopping a heartbeat and possibly even happening when a child could feel the pain (I am completely against partial birth abortions unless it was absolutely the last thing available to save a woman's life).
    I'm curious about how you can believe that "life begins" (or whatever you want to say) at implantation. Can you explain? Or is that not your view? Is it the beating heart?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I'm curious about how you can believe that "life begins" (or whatever you want to say) at implantation. Can you explain? Or is that not your view? Is it the beating heart?
    Mine's basically the beating heart. Considering a baby's heart starts beating between the 1st and 2nd month of the pregnancy though, and most women won't find out they're pregnant until after the 1st month, it is really early in the pregnancy and essentially eliminates many abortions from being acceptable to me.

    However, that being said, I think it is impractical to make abortion illegal right now because it would cause a multitude of problems. At the moment, I think limiting them to prior to viability is the best way to go (with the only exception being for mother's life). I would not personally approve of having an abortion for anything but mother's life and rape (although this one still makes me weary, I definitely understand the choice for this). I might also include if it is almost certain that the baby would live a horrible, pain filled life if born but this would be exceptionally hard to diagnose during a pregnancy. I do not include incest because either it is rape, which would fall in with those who are raped, or both consented (and were legally of age to do so) and it would fall in with those just aborting because they didn't want the baby.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Mine's basically the beating heart. Considering a baby's heart starts beating between the 1st and 2nd month of the pregnancy though, and most women won't find out they're pregnant until after the 1st month, it is really early in the pregnancy and essentially eliminates many abortions from being acceptable to me.

    However, that being said, I think it is impractical to make abortion illegal right now because it would cause a multitude of problems. At the moment, I think limiting them to prior to viability is the best way to go (with the only exception being for mother's life). I would not personally approve of having an abortion for anything but mother's life and rape (although this one still makes me weary, I definitely understand the choice for this). I might also include if it is almost certain that the baby would live a horrible, pain filled life if born but this would be exceptionally hard to diagnose during a pregnancy. I do not include incest because either it is rape, which would fall in with those who are raped, or both consented (and were legally of age to do so) and it would fall in with those just aborting because they didn't want the baby.
    Okay, let me challenge your logic (forcefully, but for a purpose): So it's okay to kill a baby with a beating heart if its "practical" or if it happened to be the product of rape?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Okay, let me challenge your logic (forcefully, but for a purpose): So it's okay to kill a baby with a beating heart if its "practical" or if it happened to be the product of rape?
    It's not okay, but to make it illegal, at this point in time, would cause much more suffering than it's worth. I can't imagine abortion being made illegal without a provision for being raped. That would likely lead to at least some women falsely claiming rape just to get an abortion. Plus, we would probably get a lot more women trying to induce their own abortions, botching it, and causing horrible pain/damage to either themselves, the baby, or both.

    To me, things are legal are not necessarily okay, and things that are illegal are not necessarily bad, but it still could be necessary to maintain them where they are, at least for the current time, to avoid other, much worse problems.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  9. #509
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not nearly the number who are pro-life though. I'm pro-life, but I consider myself a practical pro-lifer. I would much rather have women taking morning after pills (although taking precautions before sex is much more preferred) than her having to wait to find out she is pregnant and getting an abortion. The morning after pills just eliminates a bunch of cells that are developing into more (even if it is acting as an abortion pill), while full out abortion is likely stopping a heartbeat and possibly even happening when a child could feel the pain (I am completely against partial birth abortions unless it was absolutely the last thing available to save a woman's life).
    Well... sort of. Not a heart like what you or I have, in the sense that it doesn't have a full chamber system. But sort of.

    As far as pain response, that doesn't develop until the end of the second trimester at the soonest (depending on what you count as a pain response). Elective abortions at this point are pretty much non-existent, even if they're legal. 98% of abortions happen in the first trimester. All abortions - elective or otherwise.

    But I'm wondering what makes this the cut-off point for you. What's particularly special about this point in development? You say Plan B is just eliminating a bunch of cells, but that's largely true of an early ZEF as well.

  10. #510
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well... sort of. Not a heart like what you or I have, in the sense that it doesn't have a full chamber system. But sort of.

    As far as pain response, that doesn't develop until the end of the second trimester at the soonest (depending on what you count as a pain response). Elective abortions at this point are pretty much non-existent, even if they're legal. 98% of abortions happen in the first trimester. All abortions - elective or otherwise.

    But I'm wondering what makes this the cut-off point for you. What's particularly special about this point in development? You say Plan B is just eliminating a bunch of cells, but that's largely true of an early ZEF as well.
    I heard my son's heart beat at around 2 months. I know that at that point, there is most certainly a child in there. A separate life from my own.

    I have problems killing bugs, so killing a human with a heart beat that can be saved by just waiting a few more months, with very little risk to the person they are relying on, is just deplorable.

    Honestly, I would prefer no abortions at all, besides saving the mother, even before the heart beats, just because the person feels inconvenienced about being pregnant. The heartbeat is basically just where, to me, there is no question about whether or not there is actually a life in there. That is going to be one of the first signs that we, as people, can actually detect of life when it comes to a fetus.

    And, Plan B mostly acts just as a contraceptive. Even if it is causing an abortion, there is no way really for anyone to even know that a pregnancy would have happened.

    In a perfect world we wouldn't need Plan B or abortions ever. Even in a near perfect world, this would be true. But since we don't live in a perfect or near perfect world, then I prioritize what is best for as many people as I can think of and how I feel about the thought of doing something or someone else doing something, especially when it involves harm to another living thing. I try to take into account what good comes from that harm as well.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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