View Poll Results: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

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  • Yes, it protects her from bearing the rapist's child

    106 92.98%
  • No, that pill is unethical

    8 7.02%
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Thread: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

  1. #211
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Radical pro-lifers furiously oppose discussing the real effects of what they WANT in real terms, and are offended if challenged to show what, if anything, they themselves do for unwanted and abandoned children. They just want to impose their religious beliefs on others without any responsibility for the consequences of doing so. And they do target women - always.

    IN ALL these pro-life messages, you only read what they want imposed on women. You won't find a message claiming the woman's husband, father or significant other also has legal obligation to raise, pay for, give his life to and provide for a rapist's child. Just dump on women. Religous people, even religous women, ALWAYS dump on women. Very hatefully so in effect.

    Since the LEGAL effect of declaring life begins at conception including for rape victims is IN FACT to declare wanting those women executed or put in prison for life without parole - the only sentences possible for premeditated murder of a child with a deadly weapon.

    Accordingly, there is exactly NO condemnation I could write about those ultra-radical "pro-lifers" that is as extreme as those they declare against a teenager pregnant by daily rape by her step-father.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-29-11 at 02:15 PM.

  2. #212
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    My "belief" is that rapists have exactly no rights whatsoever - and the right they least possession is the ability to procreate by their rape. You absolutely, 100%, disagree with that.

    Not to personalize, I've been to court on that matter and the court did agree. A rapist has no rights, including no genetic rights, of any kind whatsoever in relation to a woman he raped, any child that may result, or anyone in relation to that woman. That she could destroy the fetus without consequence as the victims-of-crime fund would pay the costs. That she could do so and that she had even been pregnant sealed from public record. If she has a child, that as a matter of law he is barred from any consideration of possibly being the genetic father as a matter of record if a child born. That the assailant is bared from expressing any knowledge of that woman not even to mention her name, may make no reference to her, the child if there is one or any she ever has, the assault, anyone who has any relationship to the woman or anything else about her. That in every literally and ethical sense possible, that he, the assault and any effects of it are erased. Rather, that every reality and every effect is singularly defined by the woman, including any sealing of any police records, evidence and trial transcripts and papers.

    Thus, in addition to 2 life sentences to run consecutively, the sentence also provided that if he so much as ever mentioned the assault, the woman, any child the woman may ever have, and anyone related to the woman, he was to serve his sentence thereafter in total isolation solitary denied communication with anyone but rare occasion with his lawyer, also enjoined under a gage order in such regards. While potentially he could challenge that as unreasonable punishment, the prison did inform him that they had a continuous microphone in his cell and if he breathed one word in violation they would put him in an isolation cell for the rest of his life as the court had ruled.

    As for who has the legal and all other rights and duties including as the biological father? The judge simply determined any and all men that might possibly be. Once that determined, the judge merely asked her which one, if any, she wants him to be? She answered and the judge declared in a written decree that man is the biological father.

    Guess what? It wasn't the rapist she picked an the man's name to appear on the birth cerificate as the biological father, that man agreeing. And possibly accurately so.

    Now there's a good judge.

    Had the court not been willing to quickly make such rulings, had not quick scans and testing determined the fetus showed no indications of birth defect, with it very possibly the rapist was not the bio-father, and the rapist and the man she selected having similar appearance, and her otherwise wanting a child and by that man, she was going to abort and quickly.

    Now that's a good mother.

    That's a woman that takes being a mother very seriously and not willing to be the victim of cruel fate of an evil, hateful god conspiring with a violent rapist maniac against her personal and parental-choice rights as those pro-lifers claim should be in total control of her.

    The woman, a very devoit Christian, had a simple response to other Christians who explained to her "god's will" and all the right to life crap. She replied, "your god of hate doesn't exist," and that she was a Christian so their religion - not Christianity - had no relationship to her whatsoever.

    BTW, exactly NOTHING in the Bible prohibits abortion and rather that all rights begin and are determined at birth and human life begins with first breathe.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-29-11 at 02:43 PM.

  3. #213
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Under your reasoning you favor murder unless you also oppose birth control and don't want women to have as many children as possible starting with murder, because that stops human life from becoming independently viable too. There is no difference other than you have a belief only upon a religious or philosophical slogan.
    I don't even begin to understand that.

    Believe what you want. BUT if you advocate outlawing abortion to rape victims, I believe the law should require YOU to take and fully raise with all legal duties all ophaned and abandoned children as many as every dollar you have can afford and every spare minute you have - and if not you should be put in prison or executed. You should then be required to bare the punishment you want to impose on others for your belief. No one then more than you should bear the duties and obligations of YOUR "beliefs."
    You're still doing it.

    Either you can kill a fetus, or you can't.
    [QUOTE]

    Be required to bear your own forced parenting obligation for love of children. Fair, no?
    Let's try this again.

    There are orphans out there now. Does the fact that the state must bear some responsibility for raising them justify killing them? Of course not.

    If abortion is murder - and I'm not saying it is - then it's murder. Period. Nothing else matters.

    So we know where you REALLY stand on unwanted children, tell us how many adopted and foster children are you caring for?
    I am not here making a stand on abortion. I said from the outset that I'm pro-choice. But since you asked, I am taking care of a kid with birth defects that the vast majority of people choose to abort over instead of having, and we did know before the child was born.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  4. #214
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    A fetus may be destroyed by the host woman with no immorality in doing so. However, it is not my moral judgment anyway. "Immoral" and "illegal" are not the same at all.

    I see no more rationality in claiming a one-cell zygote is a human life with all legal rights is any different from a single cell egg or single cell sperm. None of the 3 have any possible future independent of the host body at that point. Other than some religion-based ideological slogan, there is no difference.

    I could accept banning destroying a fetus upon it reaching a stage of being capable of independent external life as a legal restriction if that was a majority view. At that point is in a homo sapien life, but in my "belief" is it not yet human because it is unknown to the world and the world unknown to it independently, nor has it drawn its first breath.

    I'm not claiming the state bears the consequences and responsibility of such children - because also is declaring that I BEAR responsibility. I don't. I'm claiming that YOU are if you also are one who advocated and required such unwanted births as a matter of law. It was your decision, not mine. You - not us or them - bear responsibility for your decisions that you would impose.

    By "you" I don't mean you literally since you stated that you are pro-choice. MANY people oppose abortion - but also oppose outlawing it. Morality often is a choice for which legality isn't and shouldn't be a factor. Just as just because something is legal doesn't make it moral.

    You can call it murder if anyone wants to. Anyone can believe what they believe. I don't even particularly care unless they got in my face about it. Codifying it another matter.

    I congratulate your decision concerning your child or child you are raising. Sincerely, very good of you.

    For example, of Republicans now tripping over themselves seeking the religious right vote on abortion, the only one I find acceptable doing so is maybe Bachman for the foster children she cared for over a 7 year period. At least for a while she walked her talk.

    Because of the child you are raising, I can temper my criticism in your regards because it is a topic where I see you as having hero status otherwise in regards to children.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-29-11 at 03:00 PM.

  5. #215
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    That's true. But that doesn't make the death penalty okay, does it?
    It's a totally different issue.
    You can't stop murder or child abuse, regardless of whether or not you believe they are right or wrong. Does that mean we should just give up and let it happen?
    Well...it depends, right? Many people see capital punishment as an acceptable punishment for a crime. Its another theoretical construct (and one where if you take the muckiness of religious ideology. 'morality' whatever that means, and feelings out, becomes actually very acceptable). However...unlike the death penalty...if more effort had been placed into truly providing choice over the last 30 years instead of protesting as a form of politics there is no telling how many lives could have actually been saved AND been given real and legitimate opportunities. You either actually DO care about the lives of the woman and child or pretend to for political expediency. Which is it?

  6. #216
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No, I do not "believe" that. Nor do I think my "belief" is relevant. Its not my fetus and I'm not the victim.

    If they wanted to pass some law that a woman has to give her aborted fetus to the government to try to save or otherwise do with as it pleases? I could go along with that maybe.

    Since you keep talking about babies, a woman can give away a baby for adoption. Since a fetus and baby are identical according to them, then the woman should be able to give the fetus up too. THis includes at birth. Therefore, requiring the woman to give up the fetus in an abortion no different. Requiring her let the hospital keep to fetus is ok with me.

    Afterall, they claim they are the same as any other baby.
    But you don't believe that a woman should be forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy, especially one resulting from rape, correct?
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  7. #217
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    A fetus may be destroyed by the host woman with no immorality in doing so. However, it is not my moral judgment anyway. "Immoral" and "illegal" are not the same at all.
    You're saying they never intersect?

    Why is murder illegal? If someone decided it wasn't immoral, could they claim the right to do it simply because they believed it was okay?

    I could accept banning destroying a fetus upon it reaching a stage of being capable of independent external life as a legal restriction if that was a majority view.
    Huh? Now it's just a majority thing?

    I'm not claiming the state bears the consequences and responsibility of such children, I'm claiming that you personally are if you also are one who advocated and required such unwanted births as a matter of law.
    And I say that's silly. The state may be obligated to care for a child, but that has nothing to do with whether the state declares killing the child to be murder or not.

    I congratulate your decision concerning your child or child you are raising. Sincerely, very good of you.
    I hate when people say that. I didn't do it because I thought it was good, I did it because I actually wanted the child. But I get your point.

    For example, of Republicans now tripping over themselves seeking the religious right vote on abortion, the only one I find acceptable doing so is maybe Bachman for the foster children she cared for over a 7 year period. At least for a while she walked her talk.
    But why are you now talking about what you approve of? Is that your concern?

    Because of the child you are raising, I can temper my criticism in your regards because it is a topic where I see you as having hero status otherwise in regards to children.
    False. I have no such hero status. Those I know of (and I know many) who are busy saving unwanted children by adopting them or getting them out of horrible conditions are the heroes. We just had a kid. Nothing heroic about that. Nobody is a hero just for wanting their own kid. No child is perfect.

    Please understand - I am as disgusted as you are with the disregard for life after birth by pro-life types. I see that up close and personal. But it's not part of the debate over abortion.
    Last edited by misterman; 12-29-11 at 03:09 PM.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  8. #218
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    A fetus may be destroyed by the host woman with no immorality in doing so. However, it is not my moral judgment anyway. "Immoral" and "illegal" are not the same at all.

    I see no more rationality in claiming a one-cell zygote is a human life with all legal rights is any different from a single cell egg or single cell sperm. None of the 3 have any possible future independent of the host body at that point. Other than some religion-based ideological slogan, there is no difference.

    I could accept banning destroying a fetus upon it reaching a stage of being capable of independent external life as a legal restriction if that was a majority view. At that point is in a homo sapien life, but in my "belief" is it not yet human because it is unknown to the world and the world unknown to it independently, nor has it drawn its first breath.

    I'm not claiming the state bears the consequences and responsibility of such children - because also is declaring that I BEAR responsibility. I don't. I'm claiming that YOU are if you also are one who advocated and required such unwanted births as a matter of law. It was your decision, not mine. You - not us or them - bear responsibility for your decisions that you would impose.

    By "you" I don't mean you literally since you stated that you are pro-choice. MANY people oppose abortion - but also oppose outlawing it. Morality often is a choice for which legality isn't and shouldn't be a factor. Just as just because something is legal doesn't make it moral.

    You can call it murder if anyone wants to. Anyone can believe what they believe. I don't even particularly care unless they got in my face about it. Codifying it another matter.

    I congratulate your decision concerning your child or child you are raising. Sincerely, very good of you.

    For example, of Republicans now tripping over themselves seeking the religious right vote on abortion, the only one I find acceptable doing so is maybe Bachman for the foster children she cared for over a 7 year period. At least for a while she walked her talk.

    Because of the child you are raising, I can temper my criticism in your regards because it is a topic where I see you as having hero status otherwise in regards to children.
    Good post. I just noticed this.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  9. #219
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?
    Yes. It should be a given right, with or without a parent's consent, no matter what state you live in.

    Bee

  10. #220
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    Re: Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Good post. I just noticed this.
    Nice sig line you have:

    “As long as people believe in absurdities, they will continue to commit atrocities.” ~Voltaire

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