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Photo ID to vote?

Photo ID to vote?

  • Total voters
    92
Josie said:
Since another Presidential election is coming up, how about this topic again?

Should people have to show their photo ID in order to vote in US presidential elections? Why or why not?
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I did not answer the question because it is the wrong question.

The question ought to be: Should those registering to vote have to prove citizenship and eligibility to vote?

Showing a photo ID when one votes is a bit of closing the barn door after the horses have escaped, now isn't it?
 
Catawba said:
I voted no, as the negative effect in disenfranchising voters is greater than any good from addressing a non-existent voter fraud problem.
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Is it? How is anyone disenfranchised because they are too lazy, too stupid or too criminal to get a legitimate government issued ID? Doesn't it come down to personal responsibility? Oh, wait, we are talking about potential democratic voters? My bad.
 
Misterveritis said:
Is it? How is anyone disenfranchised because they are too lazy, too stupid or too criminal to get a legitimate government issued ID? Doesn't it come down to personal responsibility? Oh, wait, we are talking about potential democratic voters? My bad.
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Why is this an issue of laziness, intelligence or criminality? That is absurd and unfounded.
 
haymarket said:
Why is this an issue of laziness, intelligence or criminality? That is absurd and unfounded.
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It's real simple. Even illegals can get a government issued ID and then vote. Having a government issued photo ID is the wrong solution to the wrong problem.

Only the State of Arizonia has passed a state law requiring those the register to vote to actually prove they are elligible to vote. That law is still in the federal courts.
 
Catawba said:
"Imagine if everyone in Manhattan, Queens and the Bronx suddenly lost the right to vote.

That's about the number of people — 5 million and counting — affected by changes already adopted or currently pending in state legislatures around the country. When all is said and done, millions more could lose the right to vote."

Voting Rights | American Civil Liberties Union » Blog of Rights: Official Blog of the American Civil Liberties Union
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Do you believe the alleged five million people that are too lazy, too stupid, or to criminal to vote are all in one place? Or is it more likely that my community has five of them, yours has five of them...

Imagine a vote without voter fraud. What would the democrats do?

In addition to a valid ID we need to eliminate absentee ballots unless one is in the military, is overseas during the voting, or has some other legitimate reason other than convenience. There is way too much opportunity for mischief.

And finally we need to figure out how to keep the likes of Lenin from counting the votes, especially in districts where Lenin is likely to discover lost ballots to overcome the slight margins of victory republicans have.

And once gain, why is placing a reasonable burden to prove one is eligible to vote even discussed under "losing their right" to vote. It is a bold lie. They keep their right. They chose not to exercise it.
 
a777pilot said:
It's real simple. Even illegals can get a government issued ID and then vote. Having a government issued photo ID is the wrong solution to the wrong problem.

Only the State of Arizonia has passed a state law requiring those the register to vote to actually prove they are elligible to vote. That law is still in the federal courts.
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EVEN......????? You are willing to threaten the votes of millions of people because you hinge your reasoning on a possibility rather than any significant evidence of a real problem? Amazing!!!

from MisterV

Imagine a vote without voter fraud. What would the democrats do?
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What would Democrats do about what? There were 86 convictions for voter fraud in a five year recent period. So tell us in which of those elections did the Democrats win the office and would have lost had those people not voted?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_voter_identification/
 
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theplaydrive said:
Oh, I don't care if people are required to have IDs, so long as the state ensures that people get them. My point is that your attempt to tell people what they think is stupid and desperate.
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Now how will the state do that? Since nearly everybody is capable of getting a government issued ID card today why should the taxpayer (the state) have to do anything else? At what point do you cut loose the dregs of society that are just too incompetent to get a valid ID? Should we be content with 92% having valid ID? After all that would match the number of people who are employed.

The only places that come close to 100% participation are dictatorships.
 
Luna Tick said:
If they require it, it should be free to get a state ID card. Drivers license IDs are fine to require fees for, but the poor who maybe don't drive and just need an ID should be able to get one for free. Otherwise requiring an ID to vote amounts to a poll tax.
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Are you assuming that the only reason for having a government issued ID is to vote? When does anyone have any personal responsibility in your world view?
 
haymarket said:
EVEN......????? You are willing to threaten the votes of millions of people because you hinge your reasoning on a possibility rather than any significant evidence of a real problem? Amazing!!!

from MisterV



What would Democrats do about what? There were 86 convictions for voter fraud in a five year recent period. So tell us in which of those elections did the Democrats win the office and would have lost had those people not voted?

In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud - New York Times

Policy Brief on Voter Identification | Brennan Center for Justice
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If, and that is one really big if, there is no great problem with voter fraud, then there ought be no problem with ALL that would register to vote to actually prove they are citizens and eligible to vote, now would there?

Why, if this is but a right wing made up problem, would liberals/Democrats have a problem with either of both proving eligibility and showing a photo ID when actually voting?



I will not be holding my breath waiting for a reasoned answer.


LOL!


Try researching modern history and see where and by whom, the vast majority of voter cheating and fraud is taking place. Yup, it's in Democrat areas and by Democrats.
 
Here is your answer: we have a system and it works. It works darn well and there is precious little evidence of any problems at all. I will take any system that has an error rate of 86 out of nearly 200 million. While that may not be perfection, it is the closest damn thing you will see in any work of man.

Those on the right are offering a solution to a problem that does not exist all because they do not want certain folks to vote. That is it in a nutshell pure and simple. You can put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig. And this right wing "solution" to an existent problem is one stinky pig.
 
haymarket said:
Here is your answer: we have a system and it works. It works darn well and there is precious little evidence of any problems at all. I will take any system that has an error rate of 86 out of nearly 200 million. While that may not be perfection, it is the closest damn thing you will see in any work of man.

Those on the right are offering a solution to a problem that does not exist all because they do not want certain folks to vote. That is it in a nutshell pure and simple. You can put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig. And this right wing "solution" to an existent problem is one stinky pig.
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You've got to be kidding me, right?

In the past few years there has been Democrat voting fraud that almost or did change the out come of many elections. I give you Washington State, Minnesota, Missouri, Florida, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Illinois, California, Inidana...... The list goes on and on. Where have you been? Asleep or just brain dead?
 
p.s., I want every one that is eligible to vote, to vote. There, that is about as clear a statement as I can make.

As for most Democrats, they just want the proper out come, no matter the means.
 
Because so much of this thread has been suppostion with no SPECIFIC discussion on the various laws I post this:

• Starting in 2012, registered voters in Tennessee will have to show government-issued photo identification in order to cast a ballot at the polls.
• Acceptable forms of ID include:
o
Tennessee driver license with a photo (current or expired);
o A driver license issued by another state (current or expired);
o U.S. passport;
o Federal employee ID with photo;
o State employee ID with photo (including those issued by state universities);
o U.S. military ID; or
o Gun permit card with a photo.​
• Student ID cards from state universities are NOT acceptable.
• The new law requiring a government-issued photo ID to vote applies only to those voting at polling places. It does not apply to those casting absentee ballots under state law, including those age 65 or older who wish to vote absentee or those voting at licensed nursing homes.
• If you are a registered voter and do not have a government-issued photo ID, the Department of Safety and Homeland Security will provide you with a photo ID at no charge.
• To minimize wait times, groups or organizations planning to bring several people to the centers for photo IDs are encouraged to make appointments..
• Under the new voter ID law, in order to get a photo ID for voting purposes, voters must show the following documentation to a Driver Service Center examiner:
o
Proof of citizenship (such as a birth certificate); and
o Two proofs of Tennessee residency (such as a copy of a utility bill, vehicle registration/title, or bank statement).​
• Any citizen who currently holds a non-photo Tennessee driver license may elect to simply get a photo driver license rather than a separate photo ID.
• Registered voters may convert a non-photo driver license to a photo driver license at Driver Service Centers or any of the Department's county clerk partner locations at no charge.
• A citizen with a non-photo driver license must sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury stating that he or she does not have a valid government-issued photo ID for voting purposes. There will be no fee for this service.
 
a777pilot said:
You've got to be kidding me, right?

In the past few years there has been Democrat voting fraud that almost or did change the out come of many elections. I give you Washington State, Minnesota, Missouri, Florida, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Illinois, California, Inidana...... The list goes on and on. Where have you been? Asleep or just brain dead?
Click to expand...

Brain dead could be interpreted as one making allegations, claims of fact, and boasts of widespread problems without providing evidence of the same.

So lets see it.
 
Dickieboy said:
Because so much of this thread has been suppostion with no SPECIFIC discussion on the various laws I post this:

• Starting in 2012, registered voters in Tennessee will have to show government-issued photo identification in order to cast a ballot at the polls.
• Acceptable forms of ID include:
o
Tennessee driver license with a photo (current or expired);
o A driver license issued by another state (current or expired);
o U.S. passport;
o Federal employee ID with photo;
o State employee ID with photo (including those issued by state universities);
o U.S. military ID; or
o Gun permit card with a photo.​
• Student ID cards from state universities are NOT acceptable.
• The new law requiring a government-issued photo ID to vote applies only to those voting at polling places. It does not apply to those casting absentee ballots under state law, including those age 65 or older who wish to vote absentee or those voting at licensed nursing homes.
• If you are a registered voter and do not have a government-issued photo ID, the Department of Safety and Homeland Security will provide you with a photo ID at no charge.
• To minimize wait times, groups or organizations planning to bring several people to the centers for photo IDs are encouraged to make appointments..
• Under the new voter ID law, in order to get a photo ID for voting purposes, voters must show the following documentation to a Driver Service Center examiner:
o
Proof of citizenship (such as a birth certificate); and
o Two proofs of Tennessee residency (such as a copy of a utility bill, vehicle registration/title, or bank statement).​
• Any citizen who currently holds a non-photo Tennessee driver license may elect to simply get a photo driver license rather than a separate photo ID.
• Registered voters may convert a non-photo driver license to a photo driver license at Driver Service Centers or any of the Department's county clerk partner locations at no charge.
• A citizen with a non-photo driver license must sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury stating that he or she does not have a valid government-issued photo ID for voting purposes. There will be no fee for this service.
Click to expand...

Once again, showing a government issued photo ID to actually vote is the wrong solution to the wrong problem. If an illegal immigrant is registered to vote and has a government issued photo ID, that illegal is or will be allowed to vote. I say that is absoluting wrong and needs to be ended.
 
• A citizen with a non-photo driver license must sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury stating that he or she does not have a valid government-issued photo ID for voting purposes. There will be no fee for this service.
Click to expand...

Good grief! A non citizen can register to vote and all they have to do is lie. Happens all the time. There is not one county that will actually take these register via a 3 by 5 card and check to see if the info is correct. They will just issue a voter registration card and that person can now vote.....with or with out a government issued photo ID.
 
a777pilot said:
What? Too lazy to reseach it yourself. Figures.
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Rule #1 about participating in debate: it is not the job of the other side to prove your own allegations. That responsibility is solely upon your own shoulders.

Rule #2 about participating in debate: read and understand what the other side has already presented before you go saying something that just makes you look like you walked in unaware and uneducated.

I did my research. I did present my evidence. It was right there presented to you in this very thread, both today by me and by others in the past.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_voter_identification/

ID requirements are not justified by any serious or widespread problem. Proponents often cite fraud or the potential for fraud to justify new ID requirements. There is no question that election misconduct exists, including improper purges of eligible voters, distributing false information about when and where to vote, stuffing of ballot boxes, and tampering with registration forms. But there is no evidence that the type of fraud addressed by stricter voter ID - individual voters who misrepresent their identities at the polls - is anything but an anomaly. In Ohio, a statewide survey found four instances of ineligible persons voting or attempting to vote in 2002 and 20042C out of 9,078,728 votes cast - a rate of 0.00004%. Despite the invocation of fraud as support for the new Georgia law, Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox has stated that she could not recall one documented case of voter fraud relating to the impersonation of a registered voter at the polls during her ten-year tenure as an election official. Nationwide, since October 2002, 86 individuals have been convicted of federal crimes relating to election fraud (including several offenses not remedied by ID requirements), while 196,139,871 ballots have been cast in federal general elections. Statistically, Americans are more likely to be killed by a bolt of lightning.
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Rule #3 in debate: try to avoid calling people names like LAZY when it was yourself who committed the sin.
 
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VanceMack said:
Really? Both involve a 'constitutional right'...so you have no problem allowing anyone to walk in and purchase a firearm...right? I mean...as long as they are who they say they are...thats good enough!
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Is there a Constitutional right to vote?

In the body of the Constitution it up to the states.

What about the Amendments?

Amendment 12: Electors in the states vote for pres and vice-pres.
Amendment 15: The right of citizens to vote shall not be denied or abridged because of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Amendment 17: Senators shall be elected by the people from each state (in my opinion this is part of our present problems).
Amendment 19: The right of citizens to vote shall not be denied or abridged because of sex.
Amendment 24: The right of citizens to vote shall not be denied or abridged by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or any other tax. (Maybe this needs to be changed to say that one must prove one pays taxes before one has the right to vote in that election --this could eliminate the 47-51% of the people who do not pay federal income taxes.)
Amendment 26: The right of citizens, who are 18 or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged because of age.

My interpretation is that every US citizen who is at least 18 can vote. It is up to the states to set the time, place and manner for voting. I don't see any provisions for making it easy for the stupid, the lazy, the criminal, or the dead, to vote.

Over and over the Constitution makes it clear that citizens have voting rights. So it follows that the states must prove citizenship.

The is a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
 
a777pilot said:
Once again, showing a government issued photo ID to actually vote is the wrong solution to the wrong problem. If an illegal immigrant is registered to vote and has a government issued photo ID, that illegal is or will be allowed to vote. I say that is absoluting wrong and needs to be ended.
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Sorry, I didn't post the requirements to become a 'registered voter' in Tennessee. It requires a person among other things to be a US Citizen.
 
a777pilot said:
Good grief! A non citizen can register to vote and all they have to do is lie. Happens all the time. There is not one county that will actually take these register via a 3 by 5 card and check to see if the info is correct. They will just issue a voter registration card and that person can now vote.....with or with out a government issued photo ID.
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That's correct but really, laws typically keep the law abiding...well, law abiding.
 
Dickieboy said:
Sorry, I didn't post the requirements to become a 'registered voter' in Tennessee. It requires a person among other things to be a US Citizen.
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You are in fact 100% correct. They are required to be USA citizens, the rub, however, is that there is not one government agency that will or has ever since the Supreme Court case in the 1970's checked to see if those registering are in fact US citizens. They are just assumed to be telling the truth.

Neat system, this?
 
FFDP666 said:
I voted no, . . . if its a right all you should need is to be a citizen, thats it.
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What manner of evidence should the state demand from you to prove that you are a citizen? And at the polls how does an official there determine that you are who you say your are?
 
Dion said:
While the intention is to prevent fraud and that is worthy ... it is unconstitutional to require a photo ID.

Our constitution protects our citizens right to vote. Requiring an ID puts a burden on the elderly, those in poverty and the disabled.


I vote no.
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Really? I looked through the Constitution a few minutes ago. I saw many places where it said citizens shall have the right to vote. Not one time did I see it say that photo IDs are not allowed. I believe the Constitution places a burden on the states to ensure that only citizens are voting. How would you ensure that each vote was cast by a living citizen and only one time per citizen?
 
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