View Poll Results: Photo ID to vote?

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124. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    82 66.13%
  • No

    42 33.87%
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Thread: Photo ID to vote?

  1. #731
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Voter Suppression in America

    "Aside from the occasional unproven anecdote or baseless allegation, supporters of these laws simply cannot show that there is any need for them. Indeed, despite the Department of Justice’s 2002 “Ballot Access and Voting Integrity Initiative” promising to vigorously prosecute allegations of voter fraud, the federal government obtained only 26 convictions or guilty pleas for fraud between 2002 and 2005. And other studies of voter fraud consistently find that it is exceedingly rare – a 2007 Demos study concluded that “voter fraud appears to be very rare” and a 2007 study by the Brennan Center found that “by any measure, voter fraud is extraordinarily rare.” The Voting Rights Project will continue to fight these laws that disenfranchise millions of eligible voters without any legitimate justification."
    Voter Suppression in America - Protecting Access to the Ballot, Breaking Barriers to Voting | American Civil Liberties Union

    ACLU Intervenes in Arizona's Challenge of the Voting Rights Act

    ACLU Files Lawsuit Challenging Wisconsin’s Unconstitutional Voter ID Law
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #732
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    About 1% of legal voters don't have a valid photo ID. About 10% of legal voters don't have a photo ID that was issued by the state they are voting in which has their current address. We can assume that some portion of the people in those categories would go and get a new ID just to vote, but realistically, not many. So, just requiring a voter ID disenfranchises around 1% of the voters- about 2.5 million people, where requiring a photo ID that was issued by the state in which you are voting and which has your current address disenfranchises around 25 million people. Maybe if you figure 1 in 5 would go get a new ID just to vote, that'd be 2 million and 20 million.

    As a point of comparison, the highest estimates for fraud I've ever seen from any study indicated that fraudulent votes account for maybe 0.1% of votes cast in the worst case scenarios. Most estimates are down in the 0.001% sort of range for a typical election, but lets go with 0.1% just to be ultra conservative about it. So, total, a provision requiring any valid photo ID would make elections 0.7% less accurate (still assuming 1/5 would go get a new ID), where a provision requiring a photo ID issued by the state you are voting in with your current address would make voting 7.9% less accurate.

    Personally, I'm willing to sacrifice 0.7% of the accuracy of our elections just to make you guys shut up about it already. But 7.9%? No freaking way. That is straight up election rigging of the sort that can be a real threat to democracy itself.
    I really could care less what you are willing to sacrifice. Do you understand how this works? As in, got sources for your stats or are they plucked from the air whole cloth? Remember ahead of time, you're supposedly trying to convince someone that requiring voters to prove they have the right to vote is supposed to hurt the system more than allowing non citizens with no right to vote won't. Ya gotta come to the internet to see people making the same case shylock politicians trolling for every vote with a "hole" in the system that everyone knows needs addressing. Only your so called "argument is it does not need addressing. All because you are willing to "sacrifice"? Thankfully that kind of idiocy is relegated to people trying to make the argument you are. Must be frustrating watching common sense prevail state after state. I predict it is going to be a difficult road ahead for you as more states follow suit. Or don't you follow the news?

  3. #733
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Voter Suppression in America

    "Aside from the occasional unproven anecdote or baseless allegation, supporters of these laws simply cannot show that there is any need for them. Indeed, despite the Department of Justice’s 2002 “Ballot Access and Voting Integrity Initiative” promising to vigorously prosecute allegations of voter fraud, the federal government obtained only 26 convictions or guilty pleas for fraud between 2002 and 2005. And other studies of voter fraud consistently find that it is exceedingly rare – a 2007 Demos study concluded that “voter fraud appears to be very rare” and a 2007 study by the Brennan Center found that “by any measure, voter fraud is extraordinarily rare.” The Voting Rights Project will continue to fight these laws that disenfranchise millions of eligible voters without any legitimate justification."
    Voter Suppression in America - Protecting Access to the Ballot, Breaking Barriers to Voting | American Civil Liberties Union

    ACLU Intervenes in Arizona's Challenge of the Voting Rights Act

    ACLU Files Lawsuit Challenging Wisconsin’s Unconstitutional Voter ID Law
    There really is nothing like another Catawba bromide blindly issued campaign statement sounding rationale. So what if it is out of left field and addresses nothing anyone said and looks like nothing more than just play by the book posturing. Posturing? Catawba doing this? No way! You mean when he should be making his previously abandoned case or his idiotic "17.2" brain fart try to go away, but instead seems to have downed a gallon can of beans with bran flakes and is doubling down? Catawba the internet debater? No way!
    Last edited by Gie; 01-16-12 at 01:53 AM.

  4. #734
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    how many people have been convicted of voter fraud in the US say over the last decade?

  5. #735
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    how many people have been convicted of voter fraud in the US say over the last decade?
    From above: "the Department of Justice’s 2002 “Ballot Access and Voting Integrity Initiative” promising to vigorously prosecute allegations of voter fraud, the federal government obtained only 26 convictions or guilty pleas for fraud between 2002 and 2005. And other studies of voter fraud consistently find that it is exceedingly rare – a 2007 Demos study concluded that “voter fraud appears to be very rare” and a 2007 study by the Brennan Center found that “by any measure, voter fraud is extraordinarily rare.” The Voting Rights Project will continue to fight these laws that disenfranchise millions of eligible voters without any legitimate justification."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #736
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    got sources for your stats
    Always.

    Voter ID | Brennan Center for Justice

  7. #737
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    how many people have been convicted of voter fraud in the US say over the last decade?
    Don't know. Is the topic supposed to be the prosecution rate for voting fraud cases? I am supposed to assume that you are arguing that if we simply require voters to prove they are who they say they are, that rate will go down and all monies and efforts directed in that direction will be better spent elsewhere? Hell that is a good argument. I agree completely, thanks for the assistance.

    One thing is for sure, no matter how many "internet debaters" fling themselves into the fray, no sound argument against reform is a winning one.

  8. #738
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    One thing is for sure, no matter how many "internet debaters" fling themselves into the fray, no sound argument against reform is a winning one.
    So you're just saying that you don't care about arguments or evidence or anything, you're just going to go with the assumption you started with. So why don't you just go somewhere else then? Here- http://www.4chan.org/. You'll dig that more. No arguments, no expectation that you use your brain. Just good times.

  9. #739
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Simply link where the data in that material supports your comments. Then correlate how this means we should not reform the system, try to sell it to the masses and good luck. Expect disappointment. Just saying the masses clearly are not buying it. Which is A-OK in my book. Like I said, you gotta come to the internet to see the whole don't reform it argument passionately made. Regardless how flat and lifeless it comes across.

  10. #740
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you're just saying that you don't care about arguments or evidence or anything, you're just going to go with the assumption you started with. So why don't you just go somewhere else then? Here- 4chan. You'll dig that more. No arguments, no expectation that you use your brain. Just good times.
    You trying the whole "you are saying" tripe again? Know how to tell what I am saying? I said it, it appears in English text and can be copied and pasted. Get out of here with that limp noodle.

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