View Poll Results: Photo ID to vote?

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  • Yes

    82 66.13%
  • No

    42 33.87%
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Thread: Photo ID to vote?

  1. #581
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "A five year study conducted by President Bush’s Justice Department found that out of more than 300 million votes, there were only 86 cases of individual voter fraud nationwide, and most of them involved immigrants who misunderstood their eligibility. In Pennsylvania since 2004, there have been more than 20 million votes cast and 4 convictions of fraud, all involving people registering when not eligible.Subject: Voter ID Op-Ed by State Sen. Daylin Leach"
    Wrong. The study actually says...

    Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year.

    Most of those charged have been Democrats, voting records show. Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show.


    Mistakes and lapses in enforcing voting and registration rules routinely occur in elections, allowing thousands of ineligible voters to go to the polls. But the federal cases provide little evidence of widespread, organized fraud, prosecutors and election law experts said.- In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud - New York Times

    ID's are not the answer, but they will help.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 12-26-11 at 01:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #582
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Wrong. The study actually says...

    Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year.

    Most of those charged have been Democrats, voting records show. Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show.


    Mistakes and lapses in enforcing voting and registration rules routinely occur in elections, allowing thousands of ineligible voters to go to the polls. But the federal cases provide little evidence of widespread, organized fraud, prosecutors and election law experts said.- In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud - New York Times

    ID's are not the answer, but they will help.
    86 (that there was enough proof to convict) divided by 5 is still 17.2 by my calculator. The red font doesn't change that. Sorry! As your link points out:

    In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud
    Last edited by Catawba; 12-26-11 at 01:45 AM.
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  3. #583
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    86 (that there was enough proof to convict) divided by 5 is still 17.2 by my calculator. The red font doesn't change that. Sorry! As your link points out:
    #1 It makes your article wrong.
    #2 Not my link, the play drive.
    #3 My argument has never been that the fraud was perpetrated by allot of people. My contention is that it happens.
    #4 there were only 86 cases of individual voter fraud nationwide - Subject: Voter ID Op-Ed by State Sen. Daylin Leach <--- Wrong.

    Keep ignoring the rest as it does not matter anymore. You have no argument, it is happening and will continue.

    Game over man, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #584
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Do you read your own links? here is what Sentor Leach says in the piece from the above post:

    What all of this means is that to solve a problem that literally does not exist in our state, we are going to disenfranchise approximately 700,000 Pennsylvania voters. These voters: poor people, African Americans and students tend to disproportionately vote Democratic. This appears to be yet another cynical effort to rig future elections by people who have no respect for the democratic process and whose only concern is winning. It is ironic that this effort is occurring in the state where representative democracy was born.
    And why does he say that is a solution to a problem that does not exist?

    A five year study conducted by President Bush’s Justice Department found that out of more than 300 million votes, there were only 86 cases of individual voter fraud nationwide, and most of them involved immigrants who misunderstood their eligibility. In Pennsylvania since 2004, there have been more than 20 million votes cast and 4 convictions of fraud, all involving people registering when not eligible. None of these cases involved someone pretending to be someone they were not. Secretary Aichele herself, in a Philadelphia Inquirer article is quoted as saying “I've worked in polling places since 1981, and I've never seen voter fraud.”
    Apparently I have been wrong and using the figure of 86 convictions out of over 196 million votes. Actually it is out of over 300 million votes. The teeny tiny percentages just shrunk even further.

    from blackdog
    My argument has never been that the fraud was perpetrated by allot of people. My contention is that it happens.
    My oh my how far the right has sunk to attempt to stack the deck to win future elections at a time when demographic census projections clearly show their base is shrinking. Now its not even a pretense that a problem really exists, only that 100% pure virginal perfection does not exist.

    Amazing.

    This is a pure and simple partisan attempt to counter future demographic trends which spell trouble for a shrinking Republican voter base. This is a way to disenfranchise large numbers of likely Democratic voters and keep the GOP in the game.
    There is no significant problem that requires a solution.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-26-11 at 08:29 AM.
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  5. #585
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Do you read your own links? here is what Sentor Leach says in the piece from the above post:

    And why does he say that is a solution to a problem that does not exist?
    A politician pandering to his base. makes perfect sense. Since we already know from the other 15 states that it had no real effect on voter turnout.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Apparently I have been wrong and using the figure of 86 convictions out of over 196 million votes. Actually it is out of over 300 million votes. The teeny tiny percentages just shrunk even further.
    Again makes no difference. When 1 to 4 people can register 400,000 illegal names (as ACORN did) an ID can go a long way to helping expose it.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    My oh my how far the right has sunk to attempt to stack the deck to win future elections at a time when demographic census projections clearly show their base is shrinking. Now its not even a pretense that a problem really exists, only that 100% pure virginal perfection does not exist.
    More partisan crap.

    Just look at the poll. That should tell you something.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Amazing.
    Yes your level of dishonesty and partisan ranting is amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This is a pure and simple partisan attempt to counter future demographic trends which spell trouble for a shrinking Republican voter base. This is a way to disenfranchise large numbers of likely Democratic voters and keep the GOP in the game.
    Even more partisan ranting.

    Debate, not rant.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is no significant problem that requires a solution.
    I agree, and this will help that never become a major issue.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 12-26-11 at 09:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #586
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Having read the latest thread responses, if I were a conservative, I'd hide that black spot , I'd even publicly disavow being a conservative, better yet, I'd switch to being a moderate...
    And yes !, the photo ID is a good idea, whose time has come....But not for preventing certain people from voting, but for streamlining and modernizing the voting process.

  7. #587
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The study that I quoted above, clears says it may disenfranchise 5 million "eligible voters."
    I've already successfully debunked your 5 million claim, as did your own links... it's clearly incorrect.

    Re-read, and repeat until it sinks in:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1060051657

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1060051743
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #588
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No reasons have been established to institute a system which may cost hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people their vote. The system works and works quite well.
    While not an analytical answer the reason that has escaped you is ‘because they wanted to’. As BHO put it so eloquently ‘elections have consequences’. The GOP won majority in the states that passed the voter ID laws and now they get to ‘do what they want’. And as you state ‘the system works and works quite well’ so if the electorate thinks the GOP have overstepped their bounds they will press for a referendum on the ID laws, as they did the CB law in Ohio. And if they think the legislators overstepped drastically enough they may recall them individual. Considering the results of this highly unscientific DP poll, 7/3 for, referendum seems unlikely.

  9. #589
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Dickieboy...... What do you mean "because they wanted to"? Who is it that wanted to do what?

    You are intentionally confusing what i said with what you want it to mean. I took the actual historical record - 86 voter fraud convictions out of over 300 million votes cast - and showed that there is no problem and the system we have works well.

    Are you really arguing that because a party wins a majority in an election they then have license to do anything they can muster enough votes to pass and that is the only measure of if it is good and worthwhile or not?

    from Blackdog

    Yes your level of dishonesty and partisan ranting is amazing.
    Even more partisan ranting.



    ........ voting should never be a partisan issue but sadly it is. To hide your head in the sand and play high and mighty and yell PARTISAN when the reality is laid out ofr you is a bit naive to put it kindly. The reason it is so is because the right looks at demographic projections of a changing America and they see little prospect in a conservative white persons party being able to win down the road as white voters become the minority in the land as the census projects by 2050. They could do two things in response to this
    1) move to the middle to attract new voters, or
    2) move to enact repressive measures to prevent the wrong folks from voting for the wrong party as far too many have endorsed on this very site.

    The first option flies in the face of the turn by the GOP towards right libertarianism over the past years and it is now firmly in control of the party apparatus meaning that it is not going to happen anytime soon. So what we have left is efforts to end same day voting registration, cut back on early voting, increase restrictions on absentee ballot use, take away former felons right to vote, tighten up on registration procedures and introduce things like this bogus ID requirement when there is no demonstrable or significant problem which warrants any of it.

    Reality can be harsh and upsetting.... but reality it is and whining about PARTISANSHIP is not going to make it otherwise. In facts its quite humorous that someone being a warrior in a far right partisan effort pretends to take the high road and accuse others who object to Americans being stripped of voting rights as PARTISAN.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-26-11 at 11:45 AM.
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  10. #590
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    If the system is working well and there is no fraud then why do the dead vote in Cook County?

    How is it that a dead man wins an election is Missouri?

    How is it the the eventual "winner" in Minnesota and Washington got more votes in some precincts than voters in those precincts?

    How is it that in Indiana the last county to make its results know in an election is always Lake County?

    How is it that in the southern counties of Texas there are so many illegals voting that those counties are just an extension of mexico?

    There in now and has been for a long time rampant voter fraud and almost all of it is do to the attitude of Democrats that the end justifies the means.




    p.s., Not mentioned in this thread, and really ought to be its own thread, is the fact that if you don't vote on a paper ballot, you really haven't voted.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

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